Introduction to Organized Crime and Punishment - Getting Made
Title: Welcome to Organized Crime and Punishment
Original Publication Date: 6/7/2023
Transcript URL: https://share.descript.com/view/yLZmG8rmOUx
Description: Welcome to the Organized Crime and Punishment: A History and Crime Podcast. Hosts Mustache Chris and Steve will take you on a tour of the history of crime in the United States and beyond.
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Begin Transcript:
[00:00:00] Welcome to Organized Crime and Punishment, the best spot in town to hang out and talk about history and crime with your hosts, Steve and Mustache, Chris.
Welcome to this very first episode of Organized Crime and Punishment, a history and crime podcast. My name is Steve and I am joined by my co-host mustache Chris. In this podcast, we are going to give you the basic, Concept of organized crime and punishment, a history podcast, and really break down what we're going to try and do in this show.
Now, Chris, maybe tell us a little bit how we met and where the genesis of this podcast came from. Oh, yeah, me and you've been talking for I don't know how many years now. Four or five [00:01:00] years at least. Yeah, I don't know. We met like just via Facebook really? Right on history podcasts, arguing with people about events in history, really.
And then me and you kind of just tended to agree on a lot of stuff. We're still arguing about history to this day. Now this podcast, and it's maybe we're the right rebels to make this kind of podcast, a history podcast on true crime. Now, Chris became a regular guest on my previous podcast Beyond the Big Screen, and we really started talking about very different kind of movie and beyond the big screen, but it, it developed over time into talking about true crime and especially organized crime.
Yeah, initially we were, I think for first movie we were discussing like when, uh, we were talking about like, me, you know, coming on your, uh, podcast once in a while was the Prometheus and I turned into like a, almost like, it felt like a month [00:02:00] discussion about the movie. And then, you know, we've done like a lot of, made a lot of content together actually.
Uh, and beyond the big screen. We also did a series on eight man outs, which was. Really cool. It ties into, cuz it's kind of about organized crime, maybe we can revisit that for this podcast that we're doing now. And then we kind of shifted, we were gonna do like a little series on the Mafia and I think we picked out like, I think it was like six movies we were gonna do initially and then I.
Just kind of one thing led to another and we kept on adding movies. We kept on saying, oh, we gotta do like a background episode on this. And like more and more of the research was more about like the history behind these movies. And you know, we decided let's just do a organized crime podcast. When we started diving into the, talking about these mafia movies and we talk about this movie and that movie.
We both started to feel kind of constrained that we had to tie it to a movie because there's so many [00:03:00] great stories that go beyond any movie and it's like, oh, I wish we could talk about this topic or that topic. The Appalachian conference or the uh, the story of the Colombo family. But we really couldn't because there wasn't a movie that directly tied to it.
And that's where we started to think that, let's stretch this out. And that's what this podcast is really going to be about is deep dives into so many aspects of organized crime and things that you can look forward to. In this very first series our we're going to look into. The five families of New York, we're going to look into really individualized stories of the five Families of New York, focusing really in this first series about the golden age of the mafia, of how we define it, of the sixties, the seventies, the eighties, and then into the nineties.
But from there we have a lot of different [00:04:00] plans to get into. Specific moments of the mafia and not even, and we're looking beyond the mafia as well. We're looking at organized crime all over the world, and that's really what we wanna try and do is bring a historical light to the true crime genre. Yeah, for sure.
Cuz like we're both kind of history nerds, right? Like we mentioned earlier, we, that's how we met was just like arguing about history on history podcast pages, right? And me and you were always discussing history and you know, when we were initially kind of coming up with the idea, like I went looking and I mean there's a lot of podcasts or with mafia content.
I wouldn't say a lot, but there's some, but a lot of them are more. They don't really bring like, kind of like a historical perspective to it, uh, that I, I find that we, we are gonna try to do it with this podcast where we're gonna take the material seriously. We're gonna try to do like really big, [00:05:00] deep dives into these, uh, into these subjects.
So, you know, just a little teaser, we're gonna be talking about Murder Inc. And I've been writing the notes and doing the research and it just keeps on getting deeper and deeper and deeper. That's really what's unique about what we're going to do is we're following all the trails. You can put up one of those corkboards with the pictures and the strings connecting all the people.
That's what we're really going to try to do. Chris nor I are historians, we're not academics. We're just really highly interested people and hobbyists who want to go. Deep, deep, deep into this topic of true crime in the mafia and take it really where it goes and where it takes us. We're gonna try and make connections throughout all of these series, between many of the different stories, because we're really looking at.
Many, many parallel stories that really aren't even completely [00:06:00] told right now. The academics are still trying to figure out these stories, so we're gonna try and present it to you as best as we possibly can from the perspective of. Not academic historians, but people who are really interested because honestly, that's how the detectives are looking at it.
That's how journalists are looking at it. We're trying to look at it from a lot of different perspectives. Oh yeah, for sure. And like, and just to be honest too, like there's really not, like there's some like serious academic work being done about like the mafia history in general, but in, it's one of those things that it's there, it's still relatively new.
Right. So a lot of like the researcher would have you is like from journalists. Uh, it's a relatively new field, like mafia research in terms of like serious academic work where, you know, people with like master's degrees and PhDs are studying the subject as, uh, like their further thesis and, uh, thesises and stuff like that, right?
Um, but [00:07:00] like, you know, we're gonna try our best to be as accurate as we possibly can. I think we both came to the agreement too, that, you know, in terms of like kind of our own personal opinions, we're gonna be a little bit more. Open about them in terms of, you know, what we think happened or what could have happened, or maybe what should have been done.
So that'll be interesting. We're not gonna leave you without content on this first episode. In this first episode, you're going to get made into the Organized Crime and Punishment Podcast. Now, getting made or becoming a made man is the process by which a qualified, bonafide person is initiated into the mafia.
And the process in the US evolved from a longstanding secret society initiation rules in the Sicilian and the Southern Italian Mafia organized crime. The mafia initiation process is what you would call in a. Phased in [00:08:00] ritual process, and there's many examples of phased in initiation processes in religion and other secret societies.
And we can go all the way back to the Roman times with mystery cults and that sort of thing. And even in a way, Christianity initially, the way it initially handled it. Initiation into the religion was a phased in. Uh, and we can definitely see analogies between 19th century secret societies of Europe and mafia initiation.
Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, there's a lot of similarities into, I mean, you can make a lot of comparisons to like, say Freemasons and. You know, we don't know much about the Rosa Crucian, but like little we do know about it in terms of the secrecy and like how you were initiated. Um, I mean, it's really how the, why the mafia was able to work so well for as long as it did was because it was a secret society that [00:09:00] law enforcement or just people in general couldn't easily enter.
Now it's pretty interesting because we know a lot about the initiation process of the mafia in the United States. Really, for the most part, a person, a perspective member, had to become a known associate of an already made member. Uh, there's a famous person, uh, who he didn't become a rap per se, but he, uh, Exited the life, and he was a really high ranking member of the Colombo family.
And he said, you don't sign. You don't fill out an application for the mafia. You have to know somebody who's gonna vouch for you. And then you had to become an earner, so to speak, or someone who could prove that they could make money for the organization. Then after that the books had to be open, which means that the entire mafia organization, which [00:10:00] is called the commission, which we will, we will talk about extensively in the series, was needed to be ready to take on new members and that certain perspective members met.
Certain qualifications, such as they had to be 100% Italian, or even in some cases 100% Sicilian. Then there's the actual ritual of initiation, and maybe Chris, you can describe the init, the initiation process. Yeah. Most like, uh, most famously, uh, Joe Occi kind of described it. So the first time we really got a.
Kind of a clear idea of the initiation process. And according to him, you would have your finger pricked with a needle. And I've heard different, like the way you described it, and then I've heard like different things. But apparently this blood would fall onto like, uh, Like a picture of a saint and then they would burn the saint.
Right? When you, uh, [00:11:00] get initiated in, you basically have to say that like, this is your family. Now it becomes first before you even your own family and you know, breaking erta, you're basically saying you're signing away, you know, is a death sentence. And then that card of the saint where the blood is dripped onto, that's burned in the person's hand.
Usually the most important members of the family would be at that introduction. And then there's a formal introduction. Of the gathered members of that this person is now made as a member that we've heard that we get this story from several different mob informants or former made members of the Mafia.
So with some. Differences, but you can kind of probably see that the process evolved throughout time. It evolved from the Sicilians and the Southern Italian [00:12:00] organizations took on a certain flare in the United States, and then throughout the decades that slightly changed and probably different ceremonies went in different directions.
As Chris alluded to, the first made member to discuss the ceremony in detail was also one of the very first high profile mafia members to testify for the government or basically what we might call rat out. His, his family members on the inner workings, and this was a Genevese family soldier named Joe Lac way back in the 1960s.
So right now we're going to listen to a clip of. A Congressional testimony by Joe Vecchi and in this clip in front of the United States Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in Labor and Management, also called the McClellan Committee. Joe vei describes the initiation ritual in quite [00:13:00] detail.
Let, let's listen to Joe Ceci in his own words, explain the ceremony himself. The table, which was a long table and there was a gun and a knife on the table. And, uh, how many were at the table? About 35 to 40 and sat me down and, uh, and, and made me repeat an Italian. Did they set you down at the table or in a chair Out front.
Come sat me down on the end of the table with MUN and Z doing the talking next to Mun and z. Alright. Now you sat next to him, then what happened? Well, he had the knife and a gun on the table. I repeated some words he told me, but I only could explain what he meant. I could repeat the Wordss. But they were in Sicilian.
They were what? In Sicilian? In Sicilians. Didn't understand. You repeated what? You didn't understand what they meant right then they explained. They explained what they meant. Who explained Mariza well, he could [00:14:00] talk pretty good English. Mariza. He talked 12 languages. Uh, getting a good, he went on to explain that you lived by the gun and by the knife, and you died by the gun and by the knife.
Yes. What kind of a ceremony did you go through? Well, then, and taken that oath. Well, then I, uh, a, uh, he gave me, uh, a piece of paper. I supposed to, you know, invite it. And, uh, well now without burning the paper, just take a piece of paper there and show us what, what, how you did it. You don't need to set the paper up, Barb, but take a piece of, give him a piece of paper.
Let's demonstrate just what you did
in other ways, not this piece of paper. This piece of paper is born. Paper is burning. Light it. Yeah. And then in your hand you'll say, Well, again, they give you words in [00:15:00] Italian, but I know what it meant. In other words, while you were repeating the words, you were burning the paper. Right? This is the way I brain if I expose this organization, and you would, that was, uh, you of, of the fate that was to befall you.
If you betrayed the organization right? Until a piece of paper blanked, you'd be burned ashes. Right? Alright, now what else did you do in that ceremony? Then after that, they, uh, They, uh, got around a table and they true numbers, they do what numbers between one to five, for instance? How you mean? Well, here, like this throw tree or one or five, let's say the way you got a table there right now, everybody throws a number in.
Otherwise we'd start down there at the table. Somebody would hold up a number of each one and hold up some fingers. Yeah, we con they could hold up as many as they wanted to. Up to five. Up to five. Well, that's about all I got over here. Well, let's say we start from you, Senator. Yeah. We start with me and let's say [00:16:00] it's 35, 40.
Say I put up two, right? And here. Put up some. Yeah, you add it all up. Let's say we, you add it all up. Let's say we get a figure about 38. About 38 all. And we start from you. And let's say you go all around and it comes to, uh, Send that next to you. Yeah. He's next to me. He is my, what you call Godfather, then.
He, he, he picks your finger. Who? Who? The godfather. He picks your finger. He picks your finger with a needle, makes a little blood come out. In other words, that's the express to blood relation. Supposed to be like brothers. Uh, that's the letting of blood. That's right. In other words, uh, Yes. Symbolic as a fact.
You're willing to spill your blood, right? To give your blood, to give your life. Yeah. As to what I'm telling you now, I need to go no fo you to just say nothing else. This is what I'm telling you, what I'm [00:17:00] exposing to you in the press and everybody, this is my doom. This is the promise I'm breaking, that I, even if I talk.
I should never talk about this and I'm doing so that's my best way to explain it. That is the highest oath you took. Right. In other words, that was the most sacred in in this organization. Right. I want you, but you would never tell this. Right? Right. So based on that clip, Chris, what do you think about getting made and what do you think about Joe ve Laci's description of this process?
It's sounds intense. You know, like it's no, like, it's no small endeavor. Um, yeah. Well, I mean, it sounds cliche, but it really isn't cliche. Like when you sign up to the mafia, you're signing up for life. There's no leaving the life, you know, there's only two ways. You're really leaving the life. It's, uh, you become a rat.
Well, I mean there, I guess there's three, right? You become a rat and you ride on all your friends. You know, people that you grew up with, [00:18:00] uh, you know their, you know their family, you know their kids. You wind up in a coffin or you wind up in jail, you know, it's no small. It's, it's, it's very seriously, it's a very serious endeavor when you join the mafia.
And I think that Joe Ceci really shows the way, hi. He wasn't born into the mafia. His parent, his father wasn't in the mafia. His uncles weren't in the mafia. He really got, he was in the the double As if we're gonna use a baseball metaphor of crime. He was noticed by the mafia and then he met the qualifications.
He proved that he was an earner and then he got brought in as a made man. He, he really exemplifies that process of how someone can move up into the mafia as a way to advance their criminal career. Yeah. You know, cuz they give in [00:19:00] and it's not necessarily, you don't even necessarily have to be like a very remarkable individual.
You know, Joe Vei wasn't, You know, super intelligent. He was kind of a dullard really, to be honest with you. Like, uh, he didn't even know, like basic geography of the United States and stuff like that. Like, there's, like, they'd, they'd be asking him a question about like, oh, do you know about what was going on in this state?
And he'd be turning to his lawyer and people thought he was like a, like, oh, should I be talking? He's like, no. He's literally asking like, where is this? I don't know where this is. Like you pointed out, he could earn. You know, for a long time he was loyal. He was in the mafia for a very long time before he turned rats.
And there's a whole story for, you know, why he ended up becoming rats or whatever word you want to use. Yeah. He was in, in the family and he kind, you know, he never worked for himself out very high, but he, you know, he was a soldier and you know, people. People knew who Joe Vei was. This episode is meant to just wet your beak a little on what mustache [00:20:00] Chris and I are going to do in this new podcast.
Organized Crime and Punishment, a History and Crime podcast, five episodes on the background of the big. Five New York families are available right now to download and listen to. You can listen on On Apple Podcast, Google Play, Spotify, YouTube, and everywhere else you find podcasts. Leave a rating review on your podcast or of choice.
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Thanks for becoming friends of ours. Guys, forget about it. The music for Organized Crime and Punishment is provided by my [00:21:00] friend Rick, and the song is called Five Eighth Socket by Rico's Groove. That's Rico's groove, G R U v. To find more great music like this, go right now and subscribe to Ricoh's Groove on YouTube and Spotify.
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