Organized Crime and Punishment

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Title: Murder Incorporated - The Canary that Could Sing But Couldn’t Fly Original Publication Date: 8/2/2023 Transcript URL: https://share.descript.com/view/Czku39RnwTN Description: In this episode, Mustache Chris and Steve dive into the dramatic end of Murder Incorporated and the shocking demise of its notorious hitman, Abe "Kid Twist" Reles. Join us as we explore the aftermath of Reles' mysterious death and the impact it had on the infamous crime syndicate. From the gritty streets of 1940s New York to the courtroom battles that followed, we uncover the secrets and twists that unfolded in the wake of Murder Incorporated's demise #TrueCrimeStories #OrganizedCrime #MurderInc #Mobsters #CriminalUnderworld #Assassins #CrimeSyndicate #Hitmen #InfamousKillings #GanglandHistory #CrimeFamily #MafiaChronicles #ContractKillers #Crime You can learn more about Organized Crime and Punishment and subscribe at all these great places: https://atozhistorypage.start.page email: crime@atozhistorypage.com www.organizedcrimeandpunishment.com Parthenon Podcast Network Home: parthenonpodcast.com On Social Media: https://www.youtube.com/@atozhistory https://www.facebook.com/groups/atozhistorypage https://facebook.com/atozhistorypage https://twitter.com/atozhistorypage https://www.instagram.com/atozhistorypage/ Music Provided by: Music from "5/8 Socket" by Rico's Gruv Used by permission. © 2021 All Rights Reserved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210vQJ4-Ns0 https://open.spotify.com/album/32EOkwDG1YdZwfm8pFOzUu Begin Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to Organized Crime and Punishment, the best spot in town to hang out and talk about history and crime. With your hosts, Steve and Mustache, Chris. Welcome back to the program and thank you for joining Mustache, Chris and I as we weave our way through the fascinating story of the Industrial Lies Death Machine, murder Incorporated, we are approaching the end of the story of Murder, Inc. We are finally going to see the downfall of Murder Inc. And it will be confirmed that man can't fly. But they can sing. Each of these episodes in this series on Murder Inc. Can be enjoyed and listened to [00:01:00] individually, but altogether they tell, uh, and Weave a really fascinating story of Murder Incorporated, the Mafia's Killing Machine. But let's move on. There's another character, Charles Workman, and he has a really interesting trial where, um, Abel will come in again. Yeah. Charles Workman is a. It's an interesting case in the demise of, uh, murder Inc. Uh, cuz it's one of the few that didn't actually end up, up in the, in the death penalty. Uh, Workman was one of the hitman in the, uh, uh, on the Dutch Schultz hit. Uh, And the trial opened up in, uh, uh, June, 1941. And, uh, yeah, a bras was, uh, testifying at this trial once again, uh, and on this case. But like, uh, a young lady also made an appearance too. She, uh, she used a pseudonym. So we don't actually really, we don't know her name. Um, She testified that like workman, uh, showed up to like Dutch's apartment [00:02:00] the day after the murder, like demanding his clothes so he could burn them. I think literally was saying that like, I need to burn his clothes. She also said that like workman would like openly talk about. Killing Dutch around like her and like on the streets, you know, like bragging like, look, I took out Dutch soul. It's like, what an idiot. Like are you, do you know what I mean? Like, what do you, like I said, like some of these guys are not the smartest guys in the world. Like if I'm him and I took out a guy like Dutch Souls, like I'm out of town for at least a couple months. Do you know what I mean? Like, just get out of there. Don't go, don't be anywhere near there. But I don't know. Some of these guys, they, you know, Was a, just to kinda use an example, a math Tory, we had talked about earlier, and apparently he didn't even know the street that the Statue of Liberty was on because he was saying, you know what I mean? Like he was so like closed in like his little community. Like, you know, it's like you live in New York, like how do you not. I don't know. It just, some of these guys are just not very smart. Um, yeah. And then the, [00:03:00] this is where it kind of gets a little bit like I, it gets a little bit interesting. So, uh, like a funeral home director like testified that workman was employed by him during the, the time, the murder of Dutch. And, but he would like, later he would like recant this and thus, like the workman lost his alibi and then, Like his, his lawyer would end up changing his position to like not guilty to pushing for like a no contest because like, you know, his witness basically lied under oath and then it was just, and the evidence was actually quite thin that. Sticking workman to the Dutch salts hits where like you had people, Bri, you know, maybe there was a lot of people bragging on the streets at the time saying I killed Dutch. You know what I mean? And you had umbrella sharing like, oh, I heard it from this person or this person. And so it's not like the other cases that we had talked about earlier. Abra else is like, I was there, I saw it, I did it. Um, and basically, I guess they, they came to some kind [00:04:00] of agreement where, you know, like, we're gonna drop the death penalty, but you're gonna get life. In prison And Workman ended up, yeah, he ended up getting life in prison and he would end up actually getting out. Uh, I'm not sure what age he was at that time, but he ended up getting out in 1964. What was Abe Res doing during all of this time? He's bopping from one case to the next, but in his, uh, off time you might say, what was he doing? Oh yeah. So this is the, uh, the wonderful umbrella. This is what a Ross is doing, you know, showing all the, uh, the gratitude of, uh, you know, Being some star witness and, uh, you know, having his life spared and not having to pay for any of the crimes that he committed throughout his entire life. Uh, yeah. So when the guards were watching him, uh, he was actually staying, he was staying at a hotel, um, and he would have armed guards there at the, the entire time. Uh, he basically just, just stopped bathing. He would stop cleaning himself. So when then every time the guards would have to go in, it would smell [00:05:00] putrid. Um, he also would cough up, uh, violently and spit blood, uh, and, uh, like blood and spit into this cup that he would keep around. And then he would make the guards empty out the cup. Uh, thought he was dying of lung cancer. He would get into it a little bit later than he wasn't dying of lung cancer. But, uh, Just imagine that, you know, it's like, oh, thanks for, you know, protecting my life guys. And Oh yeah, by the way, do you, can you dump my, uh, spit cub, you know, because, you know, if anything happens to me, it's your guy's next. Right? And, uh, just like, just a real piece of work, man. Um, yeah, like they, I dunno, the Abe would like taunt the guards too, talking about like the murders that he had committed and I stuff, you know, like the, he would just say stuff to the guard. So like, set them off, like just try to piss them off and like get underneath their skin. Like just terrorize them in a lot of ways. Uh, I mean, I even write about a story at one time where I guess he had like the, he can get ahold of [00:06:00] these, uh, guards at any time and one of the guards, I guess he was at, It was his, uh, wedding night, and Abe knew this and he ended up like bugging him and calling him at like two o'clock in the morning saying like, I need this to get done. Like, they're trying to get me yada, yada, yada. And like the guard knowing like it's his job and he had just got married, ends up going there and Abe's just like laughing at him, you know, and like literally making like spitballs, kind of like you do in high school, like these big giant spitballs. And he would just throw 'em at the guards. Like, this is, this is, uh, the state's, uh, You know, number one witness. You know, like just what a piece of work, man. Like what do you say about any of this? I mean, I think in a way he must have had a complete mental breakdown just because he clearly knew that he was, well, obviously he, everybody knew he was marked for death. And then you're talking about. Your guards are city employees where any one of them could be [00:07:00] easily bribed to get into, uh, meet with res. I mean, you look at Joe Vici, when he finally turned, I think they put him initially in an Army base. The, that was the only thing that they could do that they knew was. Fairly much incorruptible. I also think that, you know, somebody like a Ellis, he's a murderer who's murdered hundreds of people. He's a psychopath too, and this is a power trip for him. I think there's a lot of stuff going on and this guy's head and, uh, I mean, he's not capable of, I mean, to look for rationality from somebody like him is, yeah. Uh, you're probably barking up the wrong tree. I, I'm gonna say like a bros is probably one of the, I can't think of a single thing to say, good to say about him. Like, and I can't, you know what I mean? Like, there's like people you could, like, you could look at Stalin and go, you know what? Early in Stalin's life, like this guy robbed banks and like he was [00:08:00] willing to sacrifice his life for a cause that he actually believed in. And I could objectively go like, I might hate that cause, but I can think that's admirable. You know what I mean? With, with Abe, I can't look at a single thing that this guy did and think, you know what? That's admirable. I can't. I really can't. That's, uh, and that says a lot, Steve, here again, we are a member of the Parthenon Podcast Network, featuring great shows like Josh Cohen's, eye Eyewitness History, and many other great shows. Go to Parthenon podcast to learn more. And now here is a quick word from our sponsors. Now let's move on to our next, uh, uh, you know, we're kind of working our way up the pyramid here. Leke Balter and Jacob Shapiro. What are they doing during all of this? [00:09:00] Yeah, this is kind of one of the more crazy stories than the, uh, downfall of Murder Inc. Uh, Leke and Jacob would end up going on the run from the government, stemming from, uh, both of them was with the Racker, but it was also a heroin smuggling scheme where they were actually smuggling heroin from, uh, China and then, Typically they would give money to like elderly couples to like, keep inside their car or what have, you know, like people that are like relying on not my, they don't have much money, right? Uh uh, and then they, uh, they pay off the Coast Guards, and this is kind of how they were sneaking the heroin in, uh, Jacob actually didn't run all that much. It just, I don't think it was really part of his personality to run, uh, run from the cops, even though he seems like the type of guy, he's like, you know what, I'm gonna own up to what I did. Uh, so he turned himself in on April 14th, 1938. But, uh, Leke would, uh, Still decided that he was still still gonna keep on the run. [00:10:00] Uh, at which point the government put out a 5,000, a five grand, uh, uh, reward was put out on him. And, uh, during the two year, uh, Manheim, they that quite literally spread across the globe. People reporting, they saw Leke in Poland and Palestine and across the United States and. Thomas Dewey at one, uh, Thomas Dewey ended up requesting that the, the reward be changed to $25,000, which at this time was that there's no jump change. That was a lot of money. Uh, uh, basically hoping that like one of the, you know, Loren, uh, mob guys would be like, oh, well I'm not turning down $25,000 or, Maybe even one of the bosses would turn him in, you know what I mean? Like, uh, but, uh, Lepke would end up, uh, actually just turning himself in directly to, uh, Jay Edgar Hoover. Uh, and some, I guess the, I guess the deal was like he was gonna be shown a little bit of leniency, but we'll find out that that's, Not what actually happened. And, uh, on a side [00:11:00] note I was doing, and in researching this episode there, apparently I, I can't confirm this story, but, uh, Walter Winchell, he was like a famous radio personality slash like gossip columnist at the time, uh, helped negotiate the surrender. And then I went a little deeper into who this Walter Guy was. Uh, Apparently he narrated the Untouchables, uh, TV series, kind of like, uh, like a famous, like, you know, like a columnist or something like, you know, helped negotiate like probably the biggest mobster in the United States at the time to surrender. I mean, that's pretty crazy really. And then ends up like narrating a TV show, but basically about these events in a lot of ways. Um, Yeah, and then it was revealed that like apparently Lefty had been in New York the entire time. Like Lefty had this reputation where you could lock him in a room with just books and he'd stay there for six months. You know, as long as somebody would bring him food, like, uh, It wasn't very hard for him to stay low cuz he wasn't one of these kind of flashy [00:12:00] gangsters that had to be out in public and, you know, out drinking and having a good time. He just liked to read and be left alone, so it was quite easy for him to stay in New York. Jacob Shapiro, actually on May 15th, uh, would end up, uh, he would be convicted of like conspiracy and extortion and rocketeer. He ended up getting sentenced to 15 life, uh, 15 uh, years in prison. Um, There's no way of telling the, the, this little bit I'm gonna tell you. There's, I can't say with a hundred percent certainty of it happened apparently when Leke was in jail. Jacob Shapiro was able to sneak in, uh, a note simply saying, I told you so. And, uh, he would've known exactly what this meant. But this was in reference to, uh, Jacob Shapiro was one of the guys that was in support of, uh, killing Thomas Dewey, along with Judge Soltz and uh, a couple of others. But Jacob was the one that really. Pushed for killing Thomas Dewey. I mean, I mean, in some ways Jacob's right, right. Like if you had listened to me, maybe you wouldn't be [00:13:00] in this situation. I wouldn't be in this situation either. Um, Jacob, would he ever now dying of a heart attack in 1947? Um, But leading up to basically the entire time he was in prison, he'd tell everybody, uh, you know, if we had just taken care of duty, uh, do we, none of this would've happened. And I mean, we talked about it on the previous episode. I, I. I tend to kind of agree with them. I, I think it's one of those things that either us sitting here right now or Jacob sitting in jail, you just don't know. And I can see why Jacob would wanna say I told you so. But, um, I mean, you just, you never know what would've happened. And I mean, in the end it's probably Jacob, all of these guys, Shapiro, uh, book halter, all of them were, they were going to go down and to, I think that's a. [00:14:00] Really typical criminal blame game. Oh, if we had just done what I said, we'd all be fine. And if we just use this story as a, uh, as a learning tool, nobody gets out of this. And especially th these bigger names that we're going, we've talked so much about, uh, Louis Leke Balter, Louis Capone, and Mendy Weiss. What happens to these? The biggest names in Murder, Inc. Now we're finally, we're at the really top of the org chart here. Yeah, yeah. Leke was arraigned in, uh, uh, to court on, uh, May 9th, 1941 for the murder of Joel Rosen. We had talked about, we talked about that murder on the, uh, previous episode two, uh, Abe Ellis was, uh, would also implicate Leke and like four other murders, and like to make out matters worse. Another guy named Alberta Tannenbaum would also end up, uh, testifying. He was also another member of Murder Inc. Basically, yeah. Jury would [00:15:00] end up taking like four hours to, uh, come to Enclosement that, uh, you know, they were all guilty and, uh, first degree, uh, murder, which was an automatic, uh, death sentence. Uh, And, uh, LE's Lawyers along with, uh, you know, loose component and many Weiss, uh, they would end up taking this, they would end up making appeals and then it would end up going all the way to the Supreme Court. And, but in 1941, the Supreme Court affirmed that LE's uh, conviction seven to zero. And he basically had no other options. There was no other appeals to make. And on, uh, January, 1944, lucky. Was, uh, turned over to New York State where he was sent to Sing Sing Prison, where he would be killed. Uh, Leke would make some pleas for his life, but they obviously, you know, it obviously didn't work. And then on March, uh, fourth, 1944, Leke finally got what was coming to him, and he was killed by Old Sparky Lewis. Capone and Weiss [00:16:00] were killed a few minutes before Leke. Uh, and like I pointed out earlier, they, they were part of all these appeal processes and, uh, That's it, man. Like, that's, those are all the major guys. The, basically that were sentenced to death because of a rows, and, and this is, that's the downfall of Murder Inc. Like, you know, Le, he's dead, no head anymore. I think it's just amazing. This whole story comes down. Everybody's dead right now. Where we stand really, the, the only two people that are really left standing are Albert Anastasia and. Abe res, but that's not gonna last for long. With almost all of these big players having been found guilty, they're put to death. What happens to Abe? And does Abe res live happily ever after? You could tell us, uh, from giggling at, uh, it's not a hap Yeah. A but, uh, yeah. And, uh, November [00:17:00] 12th, uh, 1941 a Ellis fell from his window and he was in room, uh, 6 23 at the Half Moon Hotel, uh, with two uh, guards at the door. This happened, this actually happened during the, uh, Leke Lewis Capone Mendi Weiss trial. That's why, uh, Albert Tenenbaum's, uh, testimony, which is so important cause. There was nobody to collaborate Abe's story. Who knows the appeals process might have worked. Um, initially it was reported that Abe Willis like tried to lower himself out the window using like a combination of like wiring and tied up bedsheets into like a rope. Uh, and it simply came undone and, uh, he fell to his death. Me personally, I just think this is absurd cuz everything that I've read about Abe Ellis, uh, he was terrified of being killed by, you know, fellow members of Murder Inc. Uh, he didn't wanna leave the police protection even for a minute, really. He wanted a guard with him at all times. So, I dunno, why was he trying to escape [00:18:00] this just doesn't make, doesn't make much sense to me. What makes a little bit more sense to me though, is a, was getting ready to talk about Albert Anastasia. Um, And, uh, the, he had information that directly relate directly, uh, connected Albert, Albert Anastasia to the murders of, uh, a Teamsters Union official, uh, Morris Diamond and Peter Panto. Uh, like Morris Diamond was a high ranking Teamsters rep. Uh, he was actually trying to get the likes of Albert and his client outta the, uh, dock Workers Union and Peter Panto was, uh, Was a, he was a labor organizer that led a revolt against the. Basically the cropped, uh, I l A, the i I l uh, U, the International Longshore Men's Union, um, that the likes of like Albert and his friends, uh, they basically ran like a Ponzi scheme in a lot of ways. Like they were stealing from the workers, they were stealing from the pension fund. All di [00:19:00] all different types of horrible stuff. And I don't know if you know anything about like longshore men work. Like it is hard, brutal work. It's dangerous. And they're, you know, they're just stealing from guys that are just trying to make ends meet and raise their family. Um, but as you can kind of see, like with these two murders, uh, with, um, panto and, uh, Morris Diamond, like we're not dealing with say, like killers killing other killers. We're dealing with guys that were like, Highly respected members of society, you know, with, uh, with the blue collar workers and even the middle class workers and people who were like legitimate union men. Um, so if Alberta got implicating these murders, it was gonna wind up for like really bad for, uh, everyone involved. Um, And if, you know, say Albert ended up getting implicating these murders and he, he himself starts seeing like, oh, maybe I can face the death penalty if Albert starts talking. That's when you start getting to the, like the very tops of organized crime in New York and [00:20:00] potentially could have taken out the, the entire. Um, could have taken out the entire mafia. And this is to me where, um, it seems believable that this, like as soon as they found out that he was gonna start talking about Albert, uh, this is when the commission decided they were gonna start doing something about it. You know, it was a little side note though, when Albert heard that maybe April else was gonna start talking about him. He ran, but probably in the more unlikely spots, he like ran to the army. So he joined the army for a bit and actually became like a technical sergeant. I don't know what that term means in the army. Anybody's in the army to just tell me what that actually means. But from what I read, he was like actually training soldiers how to do like longshoremen work cuz it was a skilled labor, how to unload ships and pack ships properly and to get as much cargo out and in as quickly as possible. Um, he would actually get rewarded for a medal for his service, and he ended up [00:21:00] earning his, uh, citizenship during the stint in the Army. I think there was a, like a detective and a prosecutor, and they asked him about it afterwards. Like, I don't even thought about looking, you know, at the Army when we were trying to find words. Pretty brilliant idea. Like basically hide where Right out in the open, a technical sergeant. It's, uh, in World War II was somebody who had a specific knowledge, a technical expert, and, uh, they don't have it anymore. I think it's. That kind of, uh, specialty has been split into different ranks, but you could see that they probably would bring somebody aboard because, because he would've been pretty old. He would've been in his. Early forties, which would've, yeah, you know, that's certainly no spring chicken to, uh, join up into the army even during wartime. So he must have had a, a, especially a specialty in [00:22:00] longshoreman ship and unloading ships and that sort of thing for it to have been even considered to join the, the military at that point. Yeah, so, and that's what he ended up, that's what he ended up doing. Right. So I mean that's pretty, it's pretty crazy. Like, I mean one day we're gonna do like a, probably end up doing like a whole series in Albert Anastasia, cuz he just led such a, such a crazy life, but actually happened to Abe Rawles. I mean, to me there's. A couple things that maybe are possible. I mean, we had talked about earlier how terrible he was just to put the final touches that he, so he does, he, he is somehow goes out of the window at this hotel and Coney Island in the, the big question is how and why that it happened. Yeah. Um, like I pointed it out, I mean, earlier, I think, I personally think like the commission was like, as soon as he was gonna start talking about Albert, they're [00:23:00] the ones who, uh, decided that we're gonna try to do something about this. But I mean, there's other possibilities, like, I mean, we talked about earlier just how horrib he was to the guards. I went and put it past them. Maybe it be one of the guards. They're like, you know what, like, we're done with this guy. He's a murderer too. Like, why? Why is this guy gonna get off with everything? They just chucked him out the window themselves. What? Uh, that's a possibility. Um, I mean, the possibility is he, I simply killed himself by accident. Like he actually did just climb out the window and, you know, fell. I don't, I think it's a little ridiculous cuz if you, if you kind of look at where the body was found, it's so far away from where the window was. Right? So if it was just simply like the ropes gave out that he create, that he made, or the outta these bed sheets, he wouldn't, his body wouldn't have been where it was like, It, it indicates that somebody either chucked him out or he, like, he jumped out. I mean, by himself. I just, cuz the [00:24:00] body's so far away from where the, the window is. But, you know, my personal opinion, I think they, Frank Costello and the commission, I, I believe they paid off the guards and, uh, To get to Rella so they can take care of their business. Um, and it would be incredibly tough to prove this anyways, cuz the only way that you would be able to find out whether, you know, it was like Frank Costello and the commission that, uh, did this. One of the guards that got paid off would have to talk, and they're not gonna talk. There's no cameras at that time. Really, they this idea of like mobile, like mobile surveillance or what have you, that just didn't exist. So one of those guys would have to talk and none of them were gonna talk. So how would you prove it? And to me, like you just gotta kind of just do the process of elimination. Like who had the most to lose? If Abras was gonna talk, it was the commission. Right. It, like I said, if Albert is on the. You know, potentially looking at old Sparky and he starts talking, they're all gonna go down. [00:25:00] Cause Albert knew, knew everything. He was part of the, the higher ups. Right? He was part of the Holy of the Holies. Um, here. Like there's no cameras, right? So they, they, I don't know. We're just kind of guessing at this point. I don't know. Steve, here again with a quick word from our sponsors. I mean, I would have to say that of the two possibilities, I think it's probably the least likely that the guards just got sick of him and killed him. I think the guards probably did kill him, but of payola from. Frank Costello and the Mafia. I think that it's not completely outside of the realm of possibilities that Abe did do something stupid. Uh, they said that he would play tricks, uh, on people, and maybe he was trying to jump out of the window and go scare that, but that seems unlikely. I think of the two [00:26:00] possibilities, what's the most likely is. The mafia and the powers that be got to the guards and they killed him. I think that that's probably, I mean, that's the slam dunk of the, the whole thing. But now it's really time to put an end to Murder Incorporated. What's the rest of the story? We have reached the, uh, conclusion of Murder Inc. And, uh, what, uh, uh, what left is there to say, well, there are, you know, well, there are a couple things in the, in the history of the mob. Something like Murder Inc. Never happened again. It'll probably surprise, uh, people considering the amount of success, success it had. Once the, uh, murder Inc. Trials happened, the five major families, uh, began to just contract out, hits on their own family members. Uh, Contract hits, uh, to their own family members. And once, uh, once in a while they would tear eyes. Uh, you know, they came to the conclusion not having a gang that was exclusively [00:27:00] for killing was just, uh, too much of a risk as proved by ais. And there's talking cuz it could potentially drag the entire commission down with it. When you have like individual families taking care of its own hits, the potential of all the other families, uh, going down with it obviously drops Dr. Drastically, right? You gotta looking at a different angle. What was Murder Inc. Uh, you know, isn't Murder Inc just like kind of a natural tribal mechanism of like an organized, uh, of organized physical violence that. Every society, big or small, that reaches a certain level of organization, like I, I think so, you know, before Murder Inc. The, the violence that happened in organized crime, and it was like random, personal petty, but most importantly it was disorganized. Um, Murder Inc. Like never came back, but the, you know, like the lessons learned from it, you know, stayed, you know, no, no longer remembers the mafia just [00:28:00] flying off, uh, hack cock, half cocked, uh, frequently murder would be, you know, organized, not personal and. Most importantly, efficient. When you're talking about a criminal element, it's really hard to have a professional efficient murder organization, especially, you know, who's really, their whole and sole job is to murder people, and you're doing it really for crime. You know, if you take a look at something like snipers in the military, they're doing it for something. Bigger country, this, that, and I think it weeds out some of the people who are maybe doing it just for, basically for being psychos. Uh, and yeah, something like the army, right? And police, hopefully they're really trying to weed out that you don't have just pure people who want to hurt and abuse people and kill for [00:29:00] enjoyment. And with Murder Inc. And with any, with a criminal organization, you're, you're really attracting those sorts of people. So I can see why they did an experiment with this Murder Inc. It didn't, it worked pretty well for a while, but I think that keeping it inside of the families probably was a better thing in the end because it was a lot more easy to control. Oh yeah. You know, and if like one guy got caught, he can't, he's not gonna burn down the, the Gambino and the Bonanos and the Colombos and everybody else with them, where this potentially, if a Ellis, you know, didn't end up trying to fly, he really could have just taken them all down with him, you know? Um, Also with the, like, the Death of Murder, Inc. Too would also mark the, uh, uh, point of when Jewish organized crime would, would become less and less powerful. Like it didn't happen all at once, but like no longer was, uh, [00:30:00] Jewish organized crime gonna reach the levels of say, Lepke and Schultz, and a Rosa again. Yes, there were like Jewish gangsters still, but it became kind of like an endangered species, you know, from this point on. The mafia became, um, more and more exclusively Italian with the odd Irish and Jewish associate. Um, That was my biggest surprise during the research of this series was just how Jewish this entire time era of the mob was. Like I knew about Lepke a bit, I knew about, I obviously knew about Meyer Lansky, I knew about Bugsy Siegel, but just how powerful the Jewish mafia at this time was like. It was a real shocker for me and uh, I'm sure for our audiences, it's probably gonna be the biggest eye opener that they're gonna get from this series. It really does seem that to. By this point, the mafia, the organized crime and is, is an Italian organization. And one, we'll see some different places where that's not [00:31:00] exactly true, but the, the Italians are really taking it over and J Jews and Irish are going to be satellites. To the main show, even Hispanics. And as we move on later, especially in a place like New York City, these other ethnicities will Beso, will become mafia associates, but they're never really running the show. Oh yeah, for sure. Right. And just in particular in like Jewish organized crime, like it was really big and it was really big for a time period, and then it just, Stop being like really big. Like I said, there was associates, but they would never reach the power that they reached during, say the heyday of Murder, Inc. It's just not gonna happen again. You know, it's never, I don't think it's ever gonna happen again. Sparring, you know, some Black Swan event or something happens. I just [00:32:00] don't see it happening. Right. Uh um, Just basically as a community, they moved on. Really, they moved up within, they moved up within American Society and they kind of left this part behind them. There's a book, uh, that I used, uh, for the research during this series, uh, tough Jews by Rob Cohen, and he talks about this, where this part of Jewish history in America, they, they. It just kind of moved on. Past Murder Inc. Like the, the community itself just, just not part of it anymore, really. Like we're the, the Italian community. I'm not, it's not saying like all Italians or what have you, it's just like it stayed within the Italian community for a much longer time. It's still there to this day. You know, we're doing a podcast on it. So with that, we're moving on from Murder Inc. Into all sorts of new, different avenues. If the people out there, if there's some aspect of organized crime that you'd really love for us to delve into, reach out, [00:33:00] email, Facebook, social media. And if you wanna help us out, the best way to help us out is to tell your friends so that your friends can become friends of ours. Yeah, guys, I really hope you enjoyed, uh, this series cuz I, I had a blast researching it. I learned a ton. Hopefully you guys learn a ton and yeah, make sure to tell your friends so they become friends of ours. Forget about it. You've been listening to Organized Crime and Punishment, a History and Crime podcast. To learn more about what you heard today, find links to social media and how to support the show. Go to our website, A to z history page.com. Become a friend of ours by sending us an email to crime A to z history page.com. All of this and more can be found in the show notes. We'll see used next time on Organized Crime and punishment. Forget about it.[00:34:00]See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Coming Soon on Organized Crime and Punishment! You can learn more about Organized Crime and Punishment and subscribe at all these great places: https://atozhistorypage.start.page www.organizedcrimeandpunishment.com Click to Subscribe: https://omny.fm/shows/organized-crime-and-punishment/playlists/podcast.rss email: crime@atozhistorypage.com Parthenon Podcast Network Home: parthenonpodcast.com On Social Media: https://www.youtube.com/@atozhistory https://www.facebook.com/groups/atozhistorypage https://facebook.com/atozhistorypage https://twitter.com/atozhistorypage https://www.instagram.com/atozhistorypage/ Music Provided by: Music from "5/8 Socket" by Rico's Gruv Used by permission. © 2021 All Rights Reserved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210vQJ4-Ns0 https://open.spotify.com/album/32EOkwDG1YdZwfm8pFOzUuSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Title:  Murder Incorporated – Fighting For Their Lives Original Publication Date: 7/26/2023 Transcript URL: Description: In this episodes, Mustache Chris and Steve delve into the notorious trials of Murder Incorporated. Uncover the shocking details of organized crime's most sinister enterprise, responsible for a wave of assassinations and violence during the mid-20th century. Join us as we explore the gripping courtroom dramas that unfolded as authorities sought to dismantle this lethal syndicate. From the high-profile trials of key members like Albert Anastasia and Louis Buchalter to the testimonies of witnesses and survivors, we unravel the web of corruption and brutality that defined Murder Incorporated. Tune in as we analyze the legal strategies, evidence, and the ultimate outcomes of these landmark cases that exposed the dark underbelly of organized crime in America. Brace yourself for a riveting journey into the trials that sought justice for the victims and challenged the formidable power of Murder Incorporated. #TrueCrimeStories #OrganizedCrime #MurderInc #Mobsters #CriminalUnderworld #Assassins #CrimeSyndicate #Hitmen #InfamousKillings #GanglandHistory #CrimeFamily #MafiaChronicles #ContractKillers #Crime You can learn more about Organized Crime and Punishment and subscribe at all these great places: https://atozhistorypage.start.page email: crime@atozhistorypage.com www.organizedcrimeandpunishment.com Parthenon Podcast Network Home: parthenonpodcast.com On Social Media: https://www.youtube.com/@atozhistory https://www.facebook.com/groups/atozhistorypage https://facebook.com/atozhistorypage https://twitter.com/atozhistorypage https://www.instagram.com/atozhistorypage/ Music Provided by: Music from "5/8 Socket" by Rico's Gruv Used by permission. © 2021 All Rights Reserved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210vQJ4-Ns0 https://open.spotify.com/album/32EOkwDG1YdZwfm8pFOzUu Begin Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to Organized Crime and Punishment, the best spot in town to hang out and talk about history and crime. With your hosts, Steve and Mustache, Chris. Welcome back to the program, and thank you for joining Mustache, Chris and I as we weave our way through the fascinating story of Murder Incorporated. In this episode, we will explore the crazy trials that led to many members of Murder, Inc. Being sentenced to death and actually executed the strange death of Abe Ellis. And finally, we try and figure out what was Murder Inc. Exactly. Each of these episodes in this series on Murder Inc. [00:01:00] Can be enjoyed and listened to individually, but altogether they tell, uh, and Weave a really fascinating story of Murder Incorporated the Mafia's killing Machine. Now, Chris, what ultimately begins the beginning of the End of Murder, Inc. Yeah, it's pretty, I don't wanna say it's like typical, but it's usually like with these, uh, what of these mafia guys, it's usually like, Something small that ends up taking them out, really. And then in the part, in the case of Murder, Inc. It was actually, there was a criminal name, Harry, uh, Rudolph, who was actually, uh, he was up on charges for, um, this murder of, uh, 19 year old gangster Alex, uh, Alpert. And, uh, I did a little research into this guy and apparently Alex had, I don't know, he had dissed Harry Strauss and a couple other Murder Inc. Guys. And. They ended up sh shooting him in, in 1933. And when his back was turned, [00:02:00] and I guess they had been investigating this, uh, murder for quite some time, uh, Harry, um, you know, fortunately for society didn't have a problem talking. So he immediately started talking about, you know, like, I didn't do this. Uh, and he starts talking to the William o Dwyer, who is, uh, he's quite famous actually. He was the mayor of New York, uh, I believe. He ran twice, and I think he ended up becoming mayor of New York, uh, once and he eventually ended up becoming the ambassador to Mexico. You know, he's a pretty big part of this story. Yeah. Al Dwyer was born in, uh, Mayo County in Ireland, uh, uh, and, uh, his academic life kind of led them to, he was studying to be, uh, studying the priesthood, which was, you know, fairly common for, uh, Irish, uh, young Irishmen at the time. Um, And he actually learned under the Jesuits and yeah, he learned Spanish while he, uh, was, uh, work, uh, learning under the Jesuits. And uh, uh, [00:03:00] obviously I was wired and ended up becoming a priest. I think he said something like, I enjoyed riding my bike more than studying or something of this sort and, and the research than the books that I was reading on the subject. Um, Yeah. So he set sail to, uh, the United States. And, uh, yeah, he initially worked as like a hard laborer and then became a police officer at one point. And, uh, uh, I, I actually was reading a story. He, he had some, um, altercation. It was like with some really kind of scummy guy that was, I believe he was like beating his wife and he was like, misuse, uh, abusing his kids or something like that. And this altercation, uh, led to, um, The man getting shot, and I believe he died. And Aunt Dwyer ended up having like this lifelong aversion to guns and kind of like scarred him for the rest of his life. And it was pretty obvious from that. Like he wasn't cut off to be like a police officer on the street level. He just. Certain that people have the temperament for it, and other people, they, when they see that type of stuff, [00:04:00] they just, they can't do it. Right. Um, yeah. And then while he was, uh, um, a police officer, he was actually studying at law school the entire time. And in 1923, opened up his own, uh, practice. Um, Would end up becoming quite successful. And uh, he ended up winning an election to become the, uh, the Brooklyn District Attorney, which would, uh, end up leading him, uh, kind of spearheading the, uh, murder Inc. Investigation. So, uh, yeah, so it was a little side tour on o's Dwier. I think it's pretty important you get the little background on him just cause uh, he's a big part of the story. Right. Um, So, yeah, to get back to the main, uh, storyline, uh, you know, o Dwyer with the, uh, the testimony of Rudolph actually was actually, uh, able to secure first, uh, degree murder, uh, charges against, uh, Abe Ellis. Martin Goldstein. And, uh, another gentleman we had mentioned before, but he ends up becoming really important. Anthony, uh, math [00:05:00] Tory. So like, yeah, back to my original point and, and what was probably just like a random hit of. Like a nobody really a 19 year old kid, like not important, like none of this really needed to happen. This is really kind of what leads to downfall of murdering. It's pretty fascinating actually, the prosecution of secret organizations like this said, it isn't easy, especially when everybody, if you open up your mouth that you're gonna, there's a likelihood that you'll get killed. But what is the break that the prosecutors got? That was able to help them crack this case? Well, Matt Tory was actually, he, he was the first guy he decided to talk and he straight up said like, I, you know, I wasn't involved in, uh, Alex hit, but, uh, Alex murder, but, you know, I was a driver in six gangling selling. So I, I can give you information on that, you know, if you guys leave me on alone. Um, Then Mathe tore, convinced, uh, Abraham Levine, who was another guy, uh, not to bombard you guys with [00:06:00] names, but you, you, it's in this type of story. It, it's kind of hard to avoid. Uh, he also decided to, uh, talk and this kind of shows you just how important Omerta is. To the mafia. Um, because once it gets broken, like as soon as like one guy starts talking, this is people say like, well, why is the mafia so ruthless against people that maybe might be talking or what have you? This is exactly the reason why, because all it took was really one guy to start talking and then it becomes another guy and then we'll see later becomes a guy that's much more important. Starts talking, this is why it's so roof. That's why it's so like important that it's capped because. Once that emeritus is broken, that, uh, trust that no one's going to talk. The whole system just comes crumbling down like really fast. And we, we'll get into it in the eighties and the nineties, like the, with the, the real kind of downfall of, uh, the mafia. Um, that's basically what happened. [00:07:00] Everyone started talking and once that trust is broken, it's. It's not really a secret society anymore. Um, yeah, so to kind of get back to the main story though, uh, once, uh, Matteto and Levine turned, uh, a couple other people turned and, but the big guy that ends up turning is, is a s uh, who've obviously talked about on all the, uh, previous episodes. Abe Ellis was the guy that kind of knew everything about. Everything. And he says like he, he knew that everyone was gonna start talking. Like, you'll find out by the end of the episode. I'm not the biggest fan of, uh, ais, but, uh, he claims that he, like he knew everyone else was gonna start talking, but based off. The information I read, like, I don't know how a would know that. Um, and he decided to turn when a, a gentleman by, uh, Burton Turkish, who actually wrote a book called Murder, murder Incorporated. He was kind of an assistant to Dwyer, where a lot of like the actual courtroom [00:08:00] activities and stuff like that, uh, Turkish would end up doing, uh, Yeah. Once Burden had done like his interrogation of Abe Abe, that's when Abe decided, you know what, I'm gonna start talking. And, uh, yeah, burden's a, he's a fairly, uh, big character in the story, like I said, and much of what we know about, uh, murder Inc. Was, comes from his book really. Steve here we are a member of the Parthenon Podcast Network, featuring great shows like Richard Lims, this American President, and other great shows. Go to parthenon podcast.com to learn more and hear is a quick word from our earths. Uh, thought. A couple of things stuck out with me with this is for one for Omerta. Everybody talks about how Joe Vici was the first one to break Mo Omerta, and we talked about him a few episodes ago in the late 1960s, but it seemed like it was always this [00:09:00] code of silence could be broken pretty quickly. I think that the thing with Joe Vici is Joe Vici. Either knew a lot of the deep story or he made up a lot of the deep story, but he grabbed attention and was a, a, a rat, if you will, but somebody who's, who came out at such a much higher level than a lot of these other guys, like this guy ales and all of these Murder Inc. It was very inside baseball and it was important for the, their trials, but it didn't. Capture the, the nation's imagination, especially maybe because of the time period it's taking place in in the late 1930s, early 1940s. There's some other stuff going on. Yeah. I think part of it too is like when we'll get into it later, like a bres, he talks about what Murder Inc did, but he doesn't necessarily talk about [00:10:00] how. Organized crime actually ran in New York. Right. He talks about like getting, like he talks about the hits that he did and the, the hits that he was ordered to do and the hitman that he found where like Joe, he talks about like, this is how the ceremony were ran. There's these families, there's bosses in each one of these families. It runs like a military organization. I, to me, that's the difference between the two. But in a lot of ways you could say, you know, A was probably, I. I, you know, obviously not as famous, but in terms of the bit beans that he spill and the people that he end up sending to the lecture chair, in a lot of ways it was more damaging to the Mafia than Joel Volti in some ways. The first members of, uh, murder Inc, to actually put on trial were, uh, Harry, my own and Frank Abano, and go back and listen to our previous episodes. You can, uh, uh, Learn about just, uh, you know, what a delightful, uh, two guys these people were. And initially Harry [00:11:00] Strauss was actually part of this case, but, uh, you know, Harry Strauss decides and, you know, like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn code two. I'm gonna testify against, uh, my fellow murder, murder Inc. Members, as we, uh, will find later on that, uh, maybe that, that was a bridge. The, uh, the state decided that was a bridge too far. You know, using Harry my own, like they were using a, uh, Yeah, in 19, uh, 40, the trial started, uh, for the 19, uh, 37 ice pick murder of Georgie Whitey, uh, Rodnick. And, uh, like I said, on the previous episodes, we discussed that murder actually. Um, On May 15th, a Reiss, uh, testified that Rudnick was marked for death when it was believed that he was a stool pigeon based on information that Harry Strauss, uh, was saying. And Rel uh, Reiss testified that, uh, happy myON, uh, Frank Amano and Harry Strauss were inside. Uh, The, [00:12:00] uh, car garage, uh, with Ron Nick. Well, he himself and, uh, I think, believe it was one other guy he said, were outside waiting for, and I, you know, keeping watch, making sure nobody like came in by accidents and, uh, After the, uh, the murder was done, or at least what they believed was done. Um, when they brought the body up to, uh, dispose of it in the, uh, car, uh, Abe ended up having to actually finish the, uh, job and he's on No, he was on stand describing this and, um, uh, sorry. Uh, and his, uh, evidence was collaborated by like, uh, other people had turned, uh, state witness to, uh, a Levine is, uh, he collaborated the, uh, story. Math tore, uh, testified that, uh, he was the one that stole the vehicle that they used to dispose of the body. So between the three of 'em, the par, uh, happy Mayon and Frank Abano were, you know, dead to rights. Um, uh, yeah, and, uh, like [00:13:00] Happy's only defense was. He said he was at his grandmother's wake. And then the research that I did, he actually was at his grandmother's wake earlier that day. So this is why, kind of why he thought it would work. But when they called the funeral director and obviously asked like, was, uh, happy my own, like at the funeral home during so-and-so time, where did, uh, that Abe said that the murder took place and they're like, no, he wasn't there. Um, And he actually had like a bunch of witnesses that were saying like, oh, no, no, no. I saw him there. I saw him there. He was there. He was there. But one of the witnesses, I guess couldn't like go, you know, I can't take your money. So he basically said like, admitted that he commit, you know, he lied and, uh, That was basically his own defense. And, um, there's just a lot of crazy stories that in this trial, like at one point with, uh, Frank Abaddon, they brought up his, uh, like previous, uh, uh, rape conviction charge. And Franco, he like denies it. He's like, well, I didn't do [00:14:00] anything. And they're like, well, what do you mean? Like, we have this conviction right here, like in court you were convicted of. And he's like, well, you know, that didn't count. I married the girl and the girl. Was in the trial, his wife. Was watching the trial as this was going on. Like, you know what I mean? Like, these people are like a totally different type of reality than us. Like can you imagine listening to that in court? It's just so crazy. Uh, yeah. And, uh, I think, sorry, May 23rd, 1940, my own and Abna were convicted of, uh, first degree, uh, Murder, which in New York at the time was, uh, basically the death sentence in the, uh, the electric chair. Uh, the court of appeals, they, they overturned the conviction, but they ended up going back to trial. And this, there's another crazy story at the retrial or, uh, happy, my own, just so furious with a relish, apparently picked up a glass of water like a. And just chucked it right out his face. And, [00:15:00] uh, I mean, to be quite honest with you, I would probably do the same thing. Uh, cause I don't know, I just, I would've probably come to the inclusion, like, there's no way I'm getting off. I'm going to the chair regardless. I might as well get a little bit of revenge. And, uh, yeah. And, uh, the second trial, the went through the appeals process and upheld and they ended up, um, they ended up, uh, Being, uh, killed and on uh, February 19th, uh, 1942. And uh, I dunno if you guys aren't familiar with how these old electric chairs, uh, look, you can look 'em up on the internet. There's lots of pictures. They used to call 'em old Sparky. Um, it's very, uh, unnerving actually. The, just looking at the chair, I just can only, I can only imagine like, I dunno, what's your opinion? You imagine being like, happy? My own and frank. Listening to a morales tell this story, and you're sitting there thinking to yourself like, I've seen this man probably kill at least 30 people, and this is the guy that's gonna be sending me to the chair. I mean, that's the [00:16:00] problem that we're going to be talking about so many times in this entire podcast is some people cooperate with the government and they get off despite doing all these crimes, and it's the dilemma of the prosecutor, can you really. What would ais say if the prosecutor said, yeah, well we are still gonna send you to the chair even though you went and talked and gave us this, all this evidence for the case that put away the other people. I mean, they have to make those choices. And I mean, I just, uh, as a moral question, I don't know what to make of that. Do you know what the deal was that they gave to Abe? Was he gonna get off or was he just not gonna get the death penalty? Well, I think he was just gonna get off like it. I, they guaranteed like basically 24 hour police protection. Like at this time there was no witness protection [00:17:00] program per se, but the, we're basically kind of doing the equivalent for Abe, and I believe he was just gonna get off of everything because. I mean, his testimony basically destroyed Murder Inc. And potentially we will get into in a little bit, could have took out the entire mafia. Um, really if he, well, I don't wanna spoil that yet for you guys. We'll get to that in a bit. So these first, we get the, uh, the first two main characters of Murder Inc. They've been convicted and uh, executed. Now let's move on to the trials of Harry Strauss and. Martin Goldstein, because those are two of our next big players. Steve, here again with a quick word from our sponsors. Yeah, like I had mentioned earlier, Harry Strauss was initially gonna, you know, play his own umbrellas, uh, role and I, the prosecutors and [00:18:00] stuff like that, they just kind of looked at, uh, the state basically looked at Harry Strauss and the type of person he was and like the amount of murders that he had committed. And they're like, no, we're, we're not doing this. Plus we already have Abe and there's no reason for us to cut a deal here with you. Um, It's gonna make us look bad. Really. Um, that's how bad of a reputation or stress had, like, you know, it's always comparing you to a or and they're like, you know, nah, it's, it's a bit too far. We're not doing that. It's almost kind of like gas pipe castle. And, uh, Samuel Bull Gravano we touched on, that's in the Five Families and five Episodes. Episodes. Um, So, yeah, Harry STRs and Martin Goldstein were put on trial on September 4th, 1939 for the murder of, uh, Irving Feinstein, which we, uh, which was one of the murders that we covered in the, uh, previous episode. Uh, the trial started in, uh, uh, on September, uh, sorry, in September, 1940 with [00:19:00] the. Straus, almost immediately he starts working this insanity angle. So he like, he stops shaving and he stops bathing. He grows this like crazy beard and, uh, I mean, it's really, it doesn't, it's not fooling anyone, but I gotta give him a little bit of credit for kind of putting forth the effort. I mean, he is fighting for his life, but it's, uh, it, it doesn't really work. Um, yeah, he's also like muttering to himself. And we'll get into a little bit more of like, uh, Martin Goldstein has, uh, It turns out to be such a coward. Uh, yeah. But once again, like Abe Ellis was the, the star witness in the trial. He, he testified that, uh, Irving Feinstein was marked by death, by, uh, Albert Anastasia. Uh, I believe it was the previous episode. I, uh, I just, a slight correction maybe I, I, this, when I was doing the research for, in this episode in particular, it says Albert Anastasia, but the previous one I read it said Leke. Um, Was the one who, uh, ordered the hit. But I mean, Albert and Lei were the two [00:20:00] heads of Murder Inc. So it could have been both of 'em really. Uh, it's just kind of slight, slightly conflicting, uh, information anybody knows. Exactly. Uh, just let me know. Um, but I'm just gonna, for this episode, I'm just gonna go and say with Abe les's testimony and say like, it was, uh, Albert Anastasia that actually wanted, uh, Irving dead. Um, And apparently the reason for the hit was, I don't know, he crossed like Vincent Mangano, which I mean, who knows man? Like maybe he like gave him the wrong look or something like that, or told him to bugger off and it's just like, no. Like this guy has to die now. You know? This is how petty some of these guys are. Who knows what he did? Um, Hey Morales, he would testify that, uh, himself, Martin Goldstein and Harry Strauss, uh, murdered, uh, Irving in his house. Um, even Morales's mother-in-law also testified in court, uh, telling, uh, like telling the court that, you know, they had asked for an ice pick earlier and some rope, uh, and [00:21:00] later in the night that she heard like music trying to cover up, like the sound of like people fighting downstairs. Um, She also said that she like, clearly heard like Harry STRs complaining about his finger being bitten. You know, it's just like the mother-in-law. I just like, ugh, this trial is so crazy. Um, even like Goldstein's, uh, like driver bodyguard, like Clara, uh, Abe's story also said that like shortly after they like burned the body and some. I know. Crazy attempt to, you know, stop identification. I guess the logic being like, well, if we look like burn it, I guess, like they won't be able to get the fingerprints. I don't know. Like these guys aren't like the smartest people in the world either. Um, even though sometimes they come across like that. Um, yeah, and it's at this point that like Goldstein. Uh, he doesn't face, uh, the potential of, uh, dying with much grace. Uh, he ends like screaming at court, like to his bodyguard, like, you're burning me? Like, how could you do [00:22:00] this? And he starts acting like hysterical, like high pitched squealing, and, uh, I dunno. There's like a, I was reading about, there's like an actual thing for this, like when there's some people, I guess when they're on death row, like there's some people that are able to just act stoically and then there's like people who like, they just completely lose it. Like they lose their mind like the moment that it's gonna start happening and, uh, There's a, there's a word for it. It's like a medical terminology for it, or like a psychiatric terminology for it. So I've forgotten it. But, uh, yeah, this is Goldstein starts, uh, suffering, uh, from this during the trial. Like even the guards are telling him, like at one point, you know, like. Yeah, smart enough. You know, like you're like, you know, basically for lack of a word, like act like a man, you know, you did all this stuff. Now you know you're gonna pay the price. And, you know, Goldstein apparently like, um, responded to the, the, the guards. Uh, you know, I'm fighting for my life. Like, don't you have a heart? Like people are just like so [00:23:00] delusional about, um, What they actually are. It's, I don't know. I couldn't imagine with a straight face saying that and being somebody like Martin Goldstein and saying that to somebody, but like, like for a minute here, like, you know, are like, am I being real with myself? Um, yeah, like the Goldstein's lawyer didn't even bother like putting up a defense. Cause I mean, What was he gonna say? Honestly, like all the evidence was so overwhelming. I, I think he just ended up just pleading for Mercy, maybe to get him off the death penalty. Uh, Harry Strauss lawyer kept up, like the game that he was was insane, and even apparently at one point let him actually go on the stand to prove how insane he was. And when he was on the stand, he was only on the stand for a couple of minutes. Like he refused to take the oath and was like muddying incoherently to himself. And then like when he went back to, uh, His table. He was like chewing on the leather on his briefcase. Like, you know, just really crazy stuff. Hey and uh, Yeah, [00:24:00] like I pointed out, obviously evidence was just so overwhelming against these two. Uh, yeah, they were sentenced to death and, um, Singh Singh Prison and at the moment, from, from what I read, Strauss actually kind of, he faced the death penalty, penalty pretty, uh, stoically were as, uh, as I pointed out earlier, Goldstein, uh, did not, uh, At all. And, uh, yeah, they were, uh, sent to the chair on June 12th, 1941. You can kind of see it that there probably really only is two ways you can take the being put to death is that either you're gonna lose it or you're gonna be resigned to it. I don't see what else other possibility there is to it. You know, it, I don't know. It's hard for me to say, right? Like, I'm not in that situation, so I don't know how I would react. Right? But I mean, I think I would have enough understanding of myself or being able to kind of look at my life objectively. Like, yeah, I did a lot of really horrible things and, uh, I [00:25:00] probably, uh, deserve what I'm getting. But I obviously, Goldstein didn't, uh, I just think it's funny to a degree, cuz like Goldstein was always the, his nickname was Bugsy and we talked about. One of the previous episodes, he was like kind of known as like a tough guy, you know? And then when the moment comes to act like a real tough guy, he, he can't do it. Um, yeah, that gets into all sorts of different psychologies. We're gonna leave it at that for today. I just wanna mention though, the best thing you can do to help us in this podcast is if you enjoy what you're hearing. Tell a friend, tell a couple of friends about the Organized Crime and Punishment Podcast so that your friends can become friends of ours. Forget about it. You've been listening to Organized Crime and Punishment, a history and Crime podcast. To learn more about what you heard today, find links to social media and how to support the show. [00:26:00] Go to our website, A to z history page.com. Become a friend of ours by sending us an email to crime A to z history page.com. All of this and more can be found in the show notes. We'll see you next time on Organized Crime and Punishment. Forget about it.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Coming Soon on Organized Crime and Punishment! You can learn more about Organized Crime and Punishment and subscribe at all these great places: https://atozhistorypage.start.page www.organizedcrimeandpunishment.com Click to Subscribe: https://omny.fm/shows/organized-crime-and-punishment/playlists/podcast.rss email: crime@atozhistorypage.com Parthenon Podcast Network Home: parthenonpodcast.com On Social Media: https://www.youtube.com/@atozhistory https://www.facebook.com/groups/atozhistorypage https://facebook.com/atozhistorypage https://twitter.com/atozhistorypage https://www.instagram.com/atozhistorypage/ Music Provided by: Music from "5/8 Socket" by Rico's Gruv Used by permission. © 2021 All Rights Reserved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210vQJ4-Ns0 https://open.spotify.com/album/32EOkwDG1YdZwfm8pFOzUuSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Title: The Lethal Legacy of Murder Incorporated Original Publication Date: 7/19/2023 Transcript URL: https://share.descript.com/view/Ah4X1GH5pQ3 Description: In this gripping episode, we delve into the chilling world of Murder Incorporated, a notorious criminal organization responsible for some of the most heinous murders in history. Join us as we explore the disturbing stories behind key murders committed by this deadly syndicate and attempt to unravel the motivations behind their existence. While the idea of a national crime syndicate employing a specialized murder organization may seem inconceivable, we examine the factors that led to the rise of Murder Inc. and why such an entity was deemed necessary. We discuss the social cost of Murder Inc., highlighting the devastating impact their actions had on communities and society as a whole. Tune in as we peel back the layers of this dark chapter in criminal history, shedding light on the hidden truths and sinister consequences of Murder Incorporated. #TrueCrime #TrueCrimeStories #OrganizedCrime #MurderInc #Mobsters #CriminalUnderworld #Assassins #CrimeSyndicate #Hitmen #InfamousKillings #GanglandHistory #CrimeFamily #MafiaChronicles #ContractKillers #Crime You can learn more about Organized Crime and Punishment and subscribe at all these great places: https://atozhistorypage.start.page email: crime@atozhistorypage.com www.organizedcrimeandpunishment.com Parthenon Podcast Network Home: parthenonpodcast.com On Social Media: https://www.youtube.com/@atozhistory https://www.facebook.com/groups/atozhistorypage https://facebook.com/atozhistorypage https://twitter.com/atozhistorypage https://www.instagram.com/atozhistorypage/ Music Provided by: Music from "5/8 Socket" by Rico's Gruv Used by permission. © 2021 All Rights Reserved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210vQJ4-Ns0 https://open.spotify.com/album/32EOkwDG1YdZwfm8pFOzUu Begin Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to Organized Crime and Punishment, the best spot in town to hang out and talk about history and crime. With your hosts, Steve and Mustache, Chris. Welcome back to Organized Crime and Punishment. We are continuing our discussion of the incredible story of Murder Incorporated, the violence arm of the Mafia. Isn't that just crazy mustache that the Mafia had a special organization for enforcing violence. That fact will get us into all sorts of fascinating conversations. But let's start off with a quick recapitulation of what we've talked about so [00:01:00] far. You can listen to any of these episodes that we've done so far on Murder, Inc. By themselves. They stand alone, uh, all the in as, uh, all the information presented, but they paint a much. Uh, richer and clearer picture of this deadly organization, murder Inc. When you put 'em all together. So, um, with that mustache, Chris, can you just recap the elements so far that we've talked about that set us up to how Murder Inc was formed? Yeah. So to, uh, kind of reintroduce some of the major players we have, uh, Abe Ellis, uh, Harry Strauss, happy Mayon, um, Frank Amano, uh, let alter Albert Anastasia, Louis Capone, and. All these guys together kind of loosely create what we known as, uh, murder Inc. Uh, lpi Bulk Alter and Albert Anastasia were the two heads of the organization. There was two heads, right? And Albert was kind of responsible [00:02:00] for the, uh, the Italian, uh, element of Murder Inc. And lpi, uh, bulk Halter was responsible for the Jewish element of. Murder Wing, uh, murder Inc. So the, we have those, those basic pieces and there's a whole lot of context that leads us up to how it's formed and labor, slugger, wars, so many other elements that come together. The whole. Situation that was going on in these neighborhoods, these ethnic enclaves, but we've gotten to this point. Let's talk about the founding and now that we have all these pieces, how is Murder Inc actually put together and why? So after like the cast of Lamar War really and when the, the creation of the National Crime Syndicate, and we talked about this earlier on the episode, one of Murder Inc. Like Lucky Luciano and Meyer Lansky and the top top cream of the top mafia came [00:03:00] with this idea of, uh, creating lenar enforcement wing for. This newly, uh, created national crime syndicates and, you know, it makes sense where, you know, it only takes kind of one person who, uh, start squealing into the police or fly off the handle. And all this hard work that, uh, went into creating something like the national crime syndicates could all just come collapsing. So basically you have to make people. Terrified of the fact that, you know, your life's gonna be at risk. If you even think about talking, uh, about Lucky Luciano, they probably wouldn't be talking about him cuz he was so high up. But, you know, talking about Lucky Luciano to the cops or anything like that in a lot of ways is basically kind of how our police force works. In some ways it might get me a little bit of trouble, but it's, it's, it's the threat of violence that really stops a lot of people from committing crimes where, You know, the violence that could happen to them, but the, you know, the, um, [00:04:00] The fact that they can get thrown in jail for many years, or the cops show up and it basically, it's the foundation of almost every society in a lot of ways where without that threat of violence, it's really hard to keep control of anything. I mean, that, that really is, I mean, I. I don't think that that's a controversial opinion, that the police is the violence arm of the state, and that the state has the monopoly of violence through the police. I mean, that's why if I have a dispute with my neighbor, I can't. Even if it was a, a completely legal dispute, and we went through the courts and it said that my neighbor owes me $10,000 because their tree fell onto my fence. I can't go and collect it from them personally. I can't take their property. The mafia needed something like that because otherwise it would be chaos. You think about different situations where clans, I mean on Sicily, even clans fight each other [00:05:00] and they have wars that go over the course of generations. The National Crime Syndicate, if it was going to be a professional operation needed, needed that ability to impose its will on people who are members. Exactly, and it, I mean, it's a natural, I think it's a natural, uh, uh, progression of just organized crime in general in the United States becoming more organized. You, you mentioned like the tree falling, like I'd recently been listening to, uh, some history on the Vikings and the Vikings Society kind of ran, it was like an honor society where, oh, Your tree fell on my tree and it like, you're not gonna pay for it. I'm gonna personally go and take care of you myself. And, you know, for like a somewhat like less organized society. I mean, that makes sense. I mean, we, we talked about earlier in the series, this is how the mafia used to take care of proms. They'd have [00:06:00] these like crazy shootouts in the middle of the streets, but at this point they start realizing. You know, as a state realizes like we can't just have like the neighbor shooting the other neighbor because you know, he flipped his cow or something like that. It just doesn't work like that. Like the neighbor has to be able to go to this third party, which is the legal system, or let's say for arguments, like just say the police, this is what my other neighbor did. They have to investigate it, see what happened, and. Come to the conclusion like, who's at fault here is, or if anybody's at fault. And a lot of ways, this is kind of how Murder Inc was used, where they get hired to do the jobs, but people within the national crime sate would sit for a very long time discussing, you know, what to do about so-and-so individual. And we'll get into it. Uh, when we talk about Judge Schultz, when there was a very long meeting about. What to do about him. Exactly. So in, in a way it was, it was [00:07:00] professionalizing, uh, the mafia. I know it sounds crazy cuz we're talking about something called Murder Inc. And once we start getting into some of these murders, it doesn't seem very professional, but it, it really was in a lot of ways, especially when you compare it to how the early mob ran. And you don't have to look very like. Bar just listened to some of our earlier episodes and we talked about it on there. You needed this mechanism to keep everybody honest and try and quell as much violence as much as you can. And now this geographically, Speaking, we're really talking mostly about the New York City area. Where was Murder Inc. Based out of inside of New York City. We've talked so much about Brownsville and parts of Manhattan, and a lot of these characters come from this Brownsville neighborhood. Is this carried through? One of its nickname was, was the Brownsville Boys. So that just tells you basically was, uh, all the major players [00:08:00] were from Brownsville or pretty close to it. Uh, it also went by, another nickname was called The Combination, I believe that was, I can think it was like, kind of like a nickname. It was like a reference to like the combination of like the, the Jewish. Mafia and the Italian mafia coming together to work, uh, um, to work together. Almost like a combination. The group's like main base of operations, believe it or not, was a place called Midnight Rosie's, uh, candy Store. And this is a, Rosie Gold was a, she was 60 years old. Uh, it was a six year old lady running this candy store, uh, that was like harboring some of the most ruthless, uh, killers that the United States has ever seen. Um, and probably this, I would say that the most ruthless, uh, killing machine the mob ever created. I mean, you could make an argument, maybe Roy, a male, but I don't think Roy to male put up the type of numbers that murder machine ends [00:09:00] up putting up. Uh, when we do our wrap up of it, Now, uh, how were these, the Combination or Murder Inc. This group, how were they employed, so to speak, or contracted as Murder, Inc. For the National Crime Syndicate. Oh yeah. What more crazy story, but like that candy store, uh, it's surprisingly, you'll hear, you'll hear a lot of about candy stores in the next couple episodes. They headphones would be lined up in the back and all the, the, you know, the, uh, members of Murder Inc. They wouldn't literally be just sitting there by the phones, but apparently when these phones went off, like the guys wouldn't answer the call and they're like, oh yeah, there's a, there's a job coming up. And I get this image of them like, You know, like all times are tough and then like they hear the phone go off and they're all like chasing over each other to go get the, to go answer the call for the, for the next job. But it sounds like something of a, like a kind of a cheesy Tarantino movie. I mean. Well, and that will, will start discussing that. You can see why they [00:10:00] would want to literally fight each other for these contracts because of how much they got paid for them. Oh yeah. Yes. So you were talking, you mentioned earlier, basically how like Murder Inc worked and it, it kind of gets back into what we were talking about earlier, but the, the mafia becoming more of a professional operation was each member of Murder Inc. Was paid a retainer. So people like Louis Capone we had talked about on previous episodes, uh, previous episode, we would, would, um, Go out and find prospects. Right. And if they were good, they'd get hired to be part of Murder Inc. They obviously have to show that they were good or had previously shown that they were good. And yeah, they would be paid a retainer, which is. Basically a salary, um, just to be there, right? So to answer any calls where if they needed somebody needed something done and they wanted you to do it, you'd have to do the job, right? Um, and for each [00:11:00] hit that these guys would get, they get paid around, depends on the hit, where it is, uh, how important that is, a thousand dollars to. Uh, uh, $5,000 per hit, which at the time that we're talking about, that's, that's a lot of money. Uh, and even the families, uh, like even the hitman's uh, families were compensated too. So I assume maybe they didn't have to pay for groceries or, you know, things of that nature or certain medical bills. Uh, basically this kind of ran. Like you would, like a modern corporation would run in a lot of ways, or you know, like you get your base salary and then you get commission depending on like what you're selling or if you do something really good. It's a, it's amazing to me too that you think about the mafia and you think that they're all killers, but in a lot of cases, they're not all killers. They might be Tufts and they might have no problem beating somebody up, but it, it's a big step to be a [00:12:00] killer. And then you see a lot of the people who were. In the mafia who were killers, they weren't smart about it at all, or they weren't hardcore enough of killers to be hit men. So I, you can see how you would have to put together a group of people who are just absolutely bloodless, cold blooded killers. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, we will like later on we'll get into like when we do like the wrap up episode by baby, in some ways this wasn't the greatest idea. But I mean if, I guess if I was lucky Luciano, or if I was Meyer Lansky, I would be, yeah, this is a brilliant idea. Why would not do this? I mean, and it did work for a very, Very long time. But in this system of paying like the retainers and like, uh, uh, helping the Hitman's families, it basically like, kind of ensured, uh, that this people [00:13:00] involved in Murder Inc. Were, would stay loyal for one. But it also made sure that potentially that these crazy killers that they were hiring, cuz they knew they were crazy killers, that's why they hired them in the first place, wouldn't. Turn on them because a lot, in a lot of ways their, you know, their salary dependent on working for the people who actually ran Murder Inc. The National Crime Syndicate. That was probably one of the biggest things that the guys at the top were very worried about was these other bosses. Um, hiring these crazy like people like Pittsburgh, Phil, to go take out another boss and remarkably it. That never actually happened. It's crazy to think about it, but it, it didn't happen. And, and following up on that, you don't maybe necessarily want to have that kind of person sitting in a family. It's uh, kinda like the, what do they say? That, uh, if you have a hammer, everything problem becomes a nail. Maybe getting these guys into their [00:14:00] own. Silo where they won't be out on the street and they have to feel like they need to run scams. And you have just absolutely psychopathic killers out there who are either gonna be used against other gangs or they're just going to be unleashed and you're basically unleashing serial killers out onto the, out onto the town when. Luciano and Meyer Lansky and all these people, they wanted to run an operation that was designed to just make money. I think a lot of the, I mean really a lot of the. Older mafia people making money was definitely important, but they also liked to break heads and they weren't as singularly focused, uh, as making a moneymaking operation. Steve, here we are, a member of the Parthenon Podcast Network, featuring great podcast like Mark v Net's, history of [00:15:00] North America Podcast. Go over to paron podcast.com to learn more. And now a quick word from our sponsors. Yeah. You know, I guess, uh, I guess you can like crack a joke about like, you know, American capitalism changed the mafia for better. I don you. No, but it's the truth though. Like, as in Sicily, a lot of the petty vendettas and stuff like that we talked to, well the, like, people like Lucky Luciano would complain about the mustache. Petes that, I mean, still ran in Sicily like that in a lot of ways for a very, very, very, very long time. Much longer than Sadie. American Mafia. I mean, I guess adopting its, uh, view like its, uh, economic. Outlook on, uh, the world. Um, definitely did change it. I mean, what's the economic outlook on the, that the Americans have about the rest of the world? It really, at its core, it's, it is capitalistic [00:16:00] and it's, it's turning things into businesses. The, that's what Luciano and Meyer, Lansky and those guys did is that they turned. Organized, they turned crime into a business. I mean, we'll get into it in future series, but you look at a lot of these mafia people that we will talk about, it's pretty indistinguishable between them and businessmen. Some of the people are obviously, Street guys who liked to just sit around all day playing, uh, cards and drinking coffee, but there was a lot of them who were basically running completely legit businesses with, with organized crime running underneath. But that leads us into, we'll get into the actual business now of Murder, Inc. You've curated a few of the more infamous or really wild tales of hits done by Murder [00:17:00] Inc. Now, you're, we're not gonna get into the super graphic details on this. Podcast is, we try to keep this as family friendly as you can keep a topic such as this, but we are going to talk about some of the things that happened. Uh, this might be a time that you would wanna turn it off in the, the minivan, but let's start off with the murder of Abe Wagner. Yeah, so Abe Wagner was a, like a smallish kind of bootlegger in around the Brownsville, uh, I'm sorry, uh, on the Lower East Side with his brother Ali. And this is, from what I've read, um, there was a new upstart gang and I've heard conflicting information about this gang, the Maza gang. Some people say it was, uh, It was a real gang, but then it wasn't a real gang and I couldn't really get a clear answer about this. Like, I think I remember reading, I think people at the time were [00:18:00] confused that it was just like, it was just the Italian mafia. It wasn't like this different type of gang. I, I don't know. It's confusing. If anybody has any information about that, uh, they can point, you know, show me, um, Because I was having difficulty finding out whether this was like a real, like an actual gang or not a gang, or just a confusion. Like a lot of this time period, a lot of this stuff is, a lot of people are kind of confused exactly what happened. Um, but yeah, to get back on track, um, Yeah, they, they, from what I read, they moved in and started, moved in on his, him and his, uh, brother's, uh, bootlegging operations. And they attempted to kill Abe by, uh, via drive-by. But Abe was, uh, surprisingly, um, able survive this situation from what I read. He rolled out of the passenger's passenger door and they shot up. The truck with like hundreds of bullets shot up the car with like hundreds of [00:19:00] bullets. But yeah, he was able to roll out and ran away, you know, something straight out of Hollywood. Crazy, crazy, you know? And that's not the only time. He'll, he'll get away. One more time. Um. Yeah, Abe used to like, I don't know, he used to like going around town telling everybody like, you know what a tough guy he was. But like, as soon as uh, um, you know, things got really serious, he, you know, he wasn't like a real tough guy. And, uh, one of Abe's brothers went to, uh, actually went to this Maza gang and offered a truce and they killed him. And, and uh, basically sending Abe the message like, yeah, there's gonna be no truth. You're just gonna stop doing what you're doing or we're gonna get you next. Uh, you know, and Abe obviously being a smart man, fearing for his life, uh, obviously went into hiding. Uh, and this is where kind of things get a little bit murky, where I've, I've read conflicting [00:20:00] things where maybe he became an informant or maybe he didn't, um, It would make sense if he kind of became an informant. He'd go the one group of people that might be able to save his life, the police and the legal system. Um, but it doesn't really, it's not really relevant in terms of Murder Inc though, where the national crimes indicate is that. The way they looked at it, it's like if you even had the potential of being an informant, that was in a lot of ways just good enough to take you out because it just wasn't worth the risk for them. Um, cuz like I said, it could take one informant to take down the whole system and, you know, when Abe Ellis becomes an informant, uh, when we got into the trial aspect of Murder Inc. Uh, he almost did that. So, um, Yeah. And, uh, Abe ended up just, uh, running out to, uh, St. Paul, Minnesota, where he actually opened up a grocery store and took out a different name and started living [00:21:00] like a semi legitimate life. Really. Uh, maybe this was an honest attempt by him to be like, you know what, I, I don't want anything to do with this crime stuff anymore. I'm just gonna open up a grocery store and one of the quietest places in the world, Minnesota, and, you know, just want to be left alone. Uh, But, uh, I guess the national crime ate, uh, got information where, uh, Abe was, and they hired two guys named Joseph Young and, uh, sorry, uh, George Young and Joseph Schafer to, uh, perf go take out Abe. And, uh, that's what they did. Um, I think it was, um, one night, uh, Abe and, uh, his partner, I guess is who were helping him run the grocery store. They, they were leaving a pharmacy and they, uh, George and Joseph Sawm, and they immediately started shooting, killing, uh, Al Gordon almost instantaneously. And Abe was able to run away again, and he got away for a little bit. And then he got, [00:22:00] he ran into, uh, the Green Dragon restaurant and, uh, uh, George and uh, Joseph got went in there and they shot him up. Uh, many times and then, uh, you know, gave them a few wax on the head with the butt ends of their guns right in front of all the customers. I just not say it just shows you that even back then, you just couldn't get away with it. Get away from the mafia. Like once they put their sights on you, they were going to fulfill the contract. Now this next one you picked is probably one of the most famous murders that they did, and that's the murder of George Rudnick. And that plays into a lot of the themes of the things that we've been talking about, uh, through this entire series on Murder Inc. Yeah. George Rudnick. He was, um, Like a petty criminal that was, you know, in and around all these guys. Right. And, uh, like during the thirties, uh, we're, when we get into the trial episode episode, we'll [00:23:00] end up having to talk about Thomas Dewey. We'll probably end up doing a. Series on Thomas Dewey, just cuz he was such an important, uh, figure in the early in, not just early mob, just mob history in general in terms of the, the punishment aspect of it. Um, yeah, so it was, yeah, during this time period, like Thomas Dewey's, like crusade against organized crime, um, Really started wrapping, uh, RA ratcheting up and his main target, uh, right at the, well, one of his main targets was Lepke Bo Holter, cuz the Lepke was probably one of the, it. The most powerful racketeer in the United States at that time period. So Lepke started getting like super paranoid about people becoming informant or ratting on him, or, you know, squealing, you know, all that type of stuff. And Rudnick had the reputation of maybe being a stool pigeon. He also was a, like a opium addict. So that also that which was well [00:24:00] known, which, you know, made people very nervous even, uh, Even a later mob, right? That one of the reasons, it's kind of a lie, but one of the reasons they had like kind of a harsh stance on drugs was, you know, you can't really trust a junkie. You know, you can't really, it doesn't matter whether it's the, you know, they're an organized crime or not, right? Like you can't trust a drug addict cuz they're a drug addict. Drugs are first, you know what I mean? That's, yeah, that's basically it. Right? Um, And, um, Leke had to order George Rodnick to leave New York as he was worried that he was talking. So in some ways, Leke kind of gave him an opportunity. He's like, but you know what? Like, I really don't wanna, I don't wanna do this, so just leave New York, right? Just get outta here. Go wherever you want. I don't care where you go. Um, just can't be here right now. Uh, and obviously George didn't listen to, uh, you know, well, well, you'll find out in a little bit. Uh, it was probably not a good idea. [00:25:00] And in 19, uh, 37, uh, Frank Abano picked up redneck with a stolen car. This was one of murder Inc's, uh, techniques is they would steal a car. I mean, they would use this for the murder and then they ditch the car. Uh, so it'd be harder to trace back to, uh, anybody cuz it was a stolen vehicle. Right. Makes sense. I'm sure it's probably a technique that's still used nowadays. Um, Yeah. And they picked up, uh, he picked up redneck, uh, redneck, probably not realizing what was in, uh, what was gonna happen in the next couple of minutes. They dropped him off at the garage, I guess, where they were all gonna hang out and, you know, happy my own, uh, Harry Strauss and Abe, uh, res were waiting for him and yeah. George Rudnick, yeah. Ended up getting stabbed 63 times with, um, With a nice pick. You can actually see, if you're not squeamish, you can actually see pictures of the, the crime scene as crazy as that sounds there. There, yeah, there's [00:26:00] quite a few of them actually. Um, Yeah. And they would end up, uh, dumping George's body in the car on the streets, and the cops, uh, would find him later, you know, with one of the most crisply crime scenes, uh, probably they've ever seen. And then I always, that kind of just blew my mind that they would just leave the body and just I, in the middle of the street, I mean, I guess at that point they just thought they were untouchable. They'd gotten away with so many murders beforehand and nothing had happened. You know, why isn't anyone gonna care about this stupid, uh, Junkie and we really get to see how v vicious and violent and brutal they were. And we're gonna see that in the next really high profile murder that of PGY Feinstein. We talked about one of the Shapiro brothers getting buried Alive, which was. I mean, that just makes my skin crawl, just even faking about it. But I guess you could argue this is probably the [00:27:00] most ruthless murder that Murder Inc. Ever did. PGY used to do business with Leke and the gambling and labor racketeering. Uh, so, you know, him and Leke were, you know, business partners, probably kind of friends in some ways. Uh, but, uh, PGY would end up making a, like a pretty big mistake. He was by moving in territory that wasn't his and. Know he was getting in Leke way. Um, this murder would actually occur in, you know, a les's own house. Uh, I believe his, I believe his grandmother was living at that house at the time. So she was like upstairs sleeping while this was all going on. Um, in the year 19, uh, 39 Abe Res, Harry Strauss, and, uh, Martin Gold being went ambush pgy, you know, once he was invited into the house. Uh, and, you know, Harry Strauss, uh, his specialty was using an ice pick. And apparently while he was, uh, doing the job, [00:28:00] PGY uh, had the audacity to, uh, take a few bites out of his finger and, uh, It's for as mean and as ruthless as a man like, uh, Harry STRs was and didn't mind killing people and all the messiness that was involved in that. Apparently he was a hypochondriac cuz he apparently freaked out when Pgy bit his finger. He thought he was gonna get lock jaw and he just could not believe that like somebody would bite his finger. Um, It sounds like something kind of like out of the comedy, he loses it, uh, he freaks out that, you know, he, we'll get into it in a little bit, like during the trial and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. He was like worried that he was gonna get lock jaw. And then this is all based off what a Ellis said. I mean, a Ellis was there. I don't know. No reason not to believe him or anything. There's no reason to really lie about a detail like that. Uh, it seems inconsequential really to the trial. So, um, And [00:29:00] basically what they ended up doing with PGY is they were so upset with him, you know, that he just, I don't know, he just didn't take it. They tied him up in such a way that, um, I don't know how to describe it via podcast. Like it's even hard to. They basically like tied him up in such a way that his feet were like, kind of attached to his, like the rope were tied, was tied around his feet, and then it was tied around his neck. And basically what what ended up happening is if his feet moved a little bit at all the, the knees around his neck would slowly tighten. Um, and it would slowly, uh, kill 'em. And apparently they, all these guys just sat around and enjoyed watching 'em do this. Like this is, uh, people say, uh, you know, which guys are like, are mob killers, like serial killers? I mean, this is straight up. That's, that's serial killer stuff. Steve, here again with a quick word from our [00:30:00] sponsors. Yeah, that's, I, I a hundred percent agree that you really see the, the step here. They are not people who are just murdering for work. This is pure enjoyment for them, and the money is probably a side benefit that they really are serial killers. Now, here's a really interesting one that you picked the murder of Joe Rosen. Joe Rosen was a legitimate, uh, businessman his whole life. He didn't have any. Run-ins with the laws. And I, I picked this one for a very particular reason. I think by the end of it, you'll, you'll understand. Like he had no runs, run-ins with the law. He was born in Brownsville too. And unlike many of the characters that we've been talking about, he actually decided, you know what? I'm actually just gonna work. So he worked and in the trucking industry and through hard work and sacrifice, he was able to save up enough money on his own to start his own little trucking business to. Cater to, uh, non-union tailor [00:31:00] companies in Pennsylvania. Um, But Leke didn't, didn't like having non-union business in his neighborhood cuz he, you know, he ran the unions. Right. Uh, it wasn't like we've talked about like it was the garment union, I think we were particularly focused on, and the episode we talked about the labor slugger wars, but Leke was involved in all different types of like, Unions, you know, trucking, even like, I think it was like flowers too and like flower arrangement shops and he was involved in all of it. Um, lots of different things. Um, but yeah, to get back to it, uh, and at this, the reason why he didn't want, uh, Joe Rose Rosen doing like catering to like non-union companies in Pennsylvania was because he ran the el amalgamated clo uh, clothing workers union. Uh, and it was like kind of cutting into his business, right? Uh, you know, you're paying, you know, not having to pay for like union dues and stuff like that. Maybe the costs were a [00:32:00] little bit lower and, you know, for the products and, you know, life. He just didn't want, I didn't want any competition. Like, this is my territory. You're not allowed to do this. This poor guy, this poor little guy that's just running like this small little trucking company. Kind of irrelevant to what luck key's doing. The amount of money that Lucky's bringing in. Right. Just a, just a power hungry control freak. Um. Yeah. And Joe Rosen, he like even sits down and talk to Lepke, it's like, well, if I lose this Pennsylvania contract, I might as well just shut down everything. Um, and Lepke apparently sets him up with a job in the Garfield Express Trucking company. Um, Apparently Lewis, uh, that he owned like 50% of, uh, eight months later the owner, the other half of the owner of the truck company, uh, fires Rosen and you know, Rosen's outta work for 18 months. And it really just kind of show you at the core of it what the mob [00:33:00] is really all about. It's intimidation. It's. This is the hidden cost of the mob. This is the part that people don't see, like they think like the mob guys are just, you know, they're just taking out other mobsters or it's just affecting other mobsters. That's just not reality. It's affecting the, you know, the everyday working Joe too, and like Joe Rosen kind of perfectly. Represents this. And what do you think Joe Rosen, I mean, he's the American dream really when you think about it. But think about it yourself. You're uh, just a regular guy, a regular Joe trying to make your way, and then you get forced, uh, forced into this situation where you have to deal with these, you know, brutal, violent thugs. What do you do? Do you play ball with them? Do you, uh, Try to work around it. Do you go through the system, through the police? I mean, you're basically, Joe's put in a completely impossible situation. Yeah. You [00:34:00] know? Yeah, for sure. Right. And what is Joe supposed to do in this situation? What is he gonna. I mean, maybe he could have beat up Lepke in a fight. Like, you know what I mean? But like, yeah, maybe Joe was, what was that guy to, you know what I mean? He just signed up getting killed. Right. Um, I, and, but like Joe was able to, uh, he was able to secure a small loan. He was able to open up an, you know, here was a candy shop coming up again, uh, and uh, opening up a small candy shop. But apparently he was very vocal around town that he was, uh, screwed over by Lepke and his friends. And you know, Thomas Dewey apparently starts hearing, or at least Lepke thinks that Thomas Dew is hearing Joe Rosen talk about how he got screwed over. Um, because at this time Thomas Dewe is investigating the amalgamated, uh, clothing, uh, clothing workers union and various other rockets that Leke is involved. And, you know, in a lot of ways Leke was justified in being, you know, paranoid about people routing [00:35:00] on him. He had, look, here's an example of just one guy, Joe Rosen, that he screwed over completely that. Just was unnecessary. Of course, he's gonna have a lot of enemies. Lucky actually tries to buy Joe Rosen off. He sends one of his coworkers, uh, co mobsters if you wanna call them to his candy shop and. Basically says over here's 200 bucks, just get outta town until things cool off. Apparently Joe Rosen's like, well, okay, whatever, I'll take the 200 bucks. And he does leave for a bit, uh, but only a bit. He ends up just coming back and apparently when, um, Leke found out that Joe Rosen came back, he. Completely, uh, blew a gasket. You know, it's like, oh, I gave him 200 bucks to leave town. You know, completely forgetting about the fact that you'd completely ruined this man's life and all the hard work that he had done, and now you're paranoid that he's gonna, you know, he's gonna ride on you. Uh, to, uh, Thomas Dewey, I just, these, these guys are [00:36:00] in a lot of ways, like children, like he could have paid them. Really well. And like children had cheap too, right? Like 200 bucks. Really. Like you're paying guys like $5,000 to do ahead. If you had given Joe Rosen say, I don't know, 10 grand. Probably a good chance. Maybe Joe Rosen just leaves. I mean, I wouldn't say it's completely fair financial compensation considering all the other stuff that he had put 'em through. But $200, it's like a slap in the face really. It's just so disrespectful. Um, Yeah, but to get back to it, uh, Leke ends up ordering the hits for, uh, ordering the hit on Joe Rosen and. On September 13th, 1936, a band of killers led by Harry Strauss broke into the candy shop, uh, waiting for drill Rosen to, uh, open up. And once, uh, Rosen did open up, he was ambushed, uh, shooting him 17 times with Harry, adding a, another [00:37:00] four when it was very clearly dead, um, caught. It's just, just brutal. Like this guy didn't do, this guy didn't do anything to deserve this. You know? And when Leke ends up going to the chair, anybody that even remotely, thanks. If there's anything to look up to these guys or even remotely feels, I don't know. Oh, did he deserve the Le Leke deserved the electric chair? I mean, you know, people can argue, and this is literally why the electric chair was invented. It was for people like Leke Boulter, out of the alma, maybe hundreds, thousands of murders that these guys did. Murder Inc. Under the orders of the National Crime Syndicate, and you really touch upon this, that it's not just inside of the mafia. They're killing people outside of the mafia as well and outside of crime. But why do you think that these five murders were so, representative Murder Inc. Was responsible for hundreds of murders. And you may be asking, like you pointed out, asking yourself like, why I picked, uh, these four to talk about. [00:38:00] And I, I thought to myself like, I don't know these. Out of, uh, out of all the murders, I felt like these four covered pretty much everything that Murder Inc. Did. You know, with Abe, we saw they hunted for a guy like all around the United States, which is something that Murder Inc. Did. They quite literally, like killed people in, you know, Miami Cleveland. Um, I remember reading, and I can't confirm this, I believe the first official mob hit that was done in the West, done on the West Coast, I believe it was LA, was by Murder Inc. But it had a little bit of difficulty. Uh, Finding the exact information on that, but once I do, we'll probably end up discussing it. Uh, just to give you an example, like it literally was across the entire United States and Abe. Kind of perfectly represents that. You know, with Rodnick, Rodnick and, uh, pgy, we, uh, we see like a lot of, like, like you pointed out, we see that, uh, they were taking out fellow criminals with, uh, PGY being, uh, competition and rodnick and junkie that [00:39:00] maybe was gonna talk. And with Rosen, it perfectly represents, uh, what the mob actually is at its core. Like the mob is. It's intimidation, it's cutting down anyone, and everyone stands in their way. You know, they are society unto themselves with little regard to anyone outside of that society. The mob, you know, will kill a little guy like Rosen, and all the people you know, and all the people that idolize them, they'll rob and kill from you too, if it served their purposes, really at the end of the day. And these four murders that, uh, I think really just captures the full spectrum of everything that, uh, murder Inc. Was all about. It's, um, I just don't think you can say enough of how brutal they are and they really set the, they set the standard, I guess, for Mafia hitman, and I don't think even in some of the people that will talk about later on in this series and another series that they really. [00:40:00] Anybody could hold a candle to the brutality, the violence, and the organization of Murder, Inc. No, not really. I mean, off the research that I've done so far, I mean down, this is like way, way down the road, but you know, Roy, the Roy DeMeo gangs, pretty much the only one that I think comes close to what Murder Inc. Was doing. And even the Roy Deel gang, I don't, they didn't really have, they didn't have a Pittsburgh fill. Right. We're not quite done with Murder Inc. Not even close. The Collapse of Murder Inc is just as fascinating and, and unbelievable as it's founding. We'll also take some time to look at some of the, the specific characters and members of Murder Inc. We'll, we'll see how they all fit together and how each one of these, I mean, Well, we can call 'em psychopaths really brought something different to this organization and they all had their eventual fall. But, uh, we will see you next time. But [00:41:00] don't forget to tell your friends about organized crime and punishment so that your friends can become friends of ours. Yeah, forget about it. You've been listening to Organized Crime and Punishment, a history and Crime podcast. To learn more about what you heard today, find links to social media and how to support the show. Go to our website, A to z history page.com. Become a friend of ours by sending us an email to crime A to z history page.com. All of this and more can be found in the show notes. We'll see used next time on Organized Crime and punishment. Forget about it.[00:42:00]See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Coming Soon on Organized Crime and Punishment! You can learn more about Organized Crime and Punishment and subscribe at all these great places: https://atozhistorypage.start.page www.organizedcrimeandpunishment.com Click to Subscribe: https://omny.fm/shows/organized-crime-and-punishment/playlists/podcast.rss email: crime@atozhistorypage.com Parthenon Podcast Network Home: parthenonpodcast.com On Social Media: https://www.youtube.com/@atozhistory https://www.facebook.com/groups/atozhistorypage https://facebook.com/atozhistorypage https://twitter.com/atozhistorypage https://www.instagram.com/atozhistorypage/ Music Provided by: Music from "5/8 Socket" by Rico's Gruv Used by permission. © 2021 All Rights Reserved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210vQJ4-Ns0 https://open.spotify.com/album/32EOkwDG1YdZwfm8pFOzUuSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Title: Dutch Schultz – In the Crosshairs of Murder Incorporated Original Publication Date: 7/12/2023 Transcript URL: https://share.descript.com/view/lbDcbM4OuQu Description: this episode, Mustache Chris and Steve delve into the captivating life of Dutch Schultz, a notorious American mobster during the Prohibition era. Born as Arthur Flegenheimer, Schultz rose to infamy as a ruthless bootlegger and racketeer in New York City. Known for his flamboyant personality and cunning tactics, Schultz built a vast criminal empire that included speakeasies, gambling operations, and protection rackets. However, his reign of power came to a violent end when he became entangled in a bloody gang war. Join us as we explore the enigmatic life of Dutch Schultz and how he will find himself on the wrong side of Murder Incorporated.   #TrueCrimeStories #OrganizedCrime #MurderInc #Mobsters #CriminalUnderworld #Assassins #CrimeSyndicate #Hitmen #InfamousKillings #GanglandHistory #CrimeFamily #MafiaChronicles #ContractKillers #Crime #truecrime You can learn more about Organized Crime and Punishment and subscribe at all these great places: https://atozhistorypage.start.page email: crime@atozhistorypage.com www.organizedcrimeandpunishment.com Parthenon Podcast Network Home: parthenonpodcast.com On Social Media: https://www.youtube.com/@atozhistory https://www.facebook.com/groups/atozhistorypage https://facebook.com/atozhistorypage https://twitter.com/atozhistorypage https://www.instagram.com/atozhistorypage/ Music Provided by: Music from "5/8 Socket" by Rico's Gruv Used by permission. © 2021 All Rights Reserved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=210vQJ4-Ns0 https://open.spotify.com/album/32EOkwDG1YdZwfm8pFOzUu Begin Transcript: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining Mustache, Chris and I as we continue to discuss the Mafia and particularly the vicious game of Contract Killers, murder Incorporated. We've been examining a lot of the biographies, some these people, and there might be somebody who you're, if you know anything about Murder, murder that you're screaming that we haven't really talked about and. That person is the person we're gonna talk about today. Dutch Schultz, uh, one of the most deadly and dangerous people and a group of deadly and dangerous people. So Chris, um, who is Dutch Schultz and why should we spend some time talking about his story? Just going through the notes of like, when we were going through, uh, the History of Murder Inc. And um, in the previous episode we talked about a couple of the big murders that Murder Inc. Had, uh, been involved in. And obviously, uh, we're gonna have to talk, talk about the murder of Dutch Schultz. But cuz I would, I would argue that's probably the murder Inc's most famous [00:01:00] murder. Um, yeah. As soon as I started getting into Judge Schultz, I figured why not just do an episode on this guy ending in his death by Murder, Inc. Because he plays, he's such an important part of this time period of the, uh, uh, mob history, and he's all interconnected with all these guys in Murder, Inc. In one way or another. Maybe not so much, say a Ellis and Jacob Shapiro and those types of guys, but. Uh, Leke and, uh, lucky Luciano and Albert Anastasia, he's, he's all interconnected with these guys more, the higher up end of the, uh, I guess, uh, murder Inc, uh, apparatus. So, uh, give us a little bit of background on Dutch. Arthur Si. Simon Frankenheimer. Sorry, that name is different. Gonna make free not laugh. Yes. That was, uh, D's actual name. Uh, was, was, uh, born to, uh, German Jewish immigrants on August. Uh, Six, uh, [00:02:00] 19, oh, uh, 1904. His father would end up abandoning the family when he was, uh, quite young. And this would traumatize Dutch for the rest of his life. Like up until the point where when people would ask him about his fathers, he would make up stories. Like his father was like, oh, he was a really important businessman. He was doing stuff overseas. And, um, I believe it's something that just he kept with him for the rest of his life. This, um, um, trust issues or maybe sense of abandonment issues, uh, I mean, that would be traumatizing. You know, any time period in history your father just picks up and leaves and doesn't want to have any, anything to do with you. Um, This inevitably. Yeah. So Dutch would, you know, grow up and he would be involved in like petty crimes and fights and things of that nature. By the 1920s, Dutch would've worked as a bouncer for, uh, a speakeasy for a gentleman named, uh, Joey. Uh, no. Joey took a shine to Dutch because of his, uh, he, he [00:03:00] recognized pretty quickly that Dutch was a pretty brutal and ruthless person, which we're gonna get into, uh, details, uh, quite shortly. And yeah, before you know, it, uh, him and Joey were, you know, opening up joints together. And this is kind of when Dutch starts, uh, getting into serious, uh, criminal activity and. Yeah, they would even use their own trucks. Like, so it would cut out all the transportation costs that would be involved in, you know, just transporting the liquor, uh, at the time. And Dutch would actually, you know, get. You mentioned, I remember one of the episodes you were mentioning some grocery chain store where they have like, the managers have to work on the floor and then they have to work in every department before they move up to the higher office, is kind of what Dutch is doing here. Like he literally would go on these trucks, ride shuck, gone to these trucks, to uh, I believe it was Union City, New Jersey, where this guy would make the booze for them and he would be part pretty much. [00:04:00] From the entire process and seeing like the boos getting made and riding shotgun in the trucks to it getting delivered and, you know, playing, uh, you know, the patrolman basically. Yeah. It's really amazing that, um, you know, Dutch, he's in the, the business side, but he's also in the sort of the head cracking side. Anybody who can do both of those things in the criminal element is gonna go far. Let's talk a little bit about moving forward some of the gang wars that are going on during this time. This time is definitely an era of gang wars. Oh, a hundred percent. Because once prohibition, you know, came into effect, there's just so much money to be made off of legal booze and everyone was looking to make a quick buck. And, you know, some of these gangs were more successful than others. Uh, so the No and Dutch gang, which is what I'm gonna be calling and ends up getting into conflict with the, uh, John, I guess you can call it the [00:05:00] Rock Brothers, uh, gang. It was John and Joe Rock. Um, a lot of the time how these prohibition gangs would work is they would force other speak speakeasies to, uh, sell their booze or they would force other gangs to like buy booze off them, which they would later in turn go sell at the different speakies or their own speakies and. John, who was the older brother, you know, initially they both said, no, you know, bugger off, Dutch, bugger off. No, like, we're not doing any business with you. And then John realizes, you know what, maybe you know, I'll buy some booze off you guys. Whatever, you know, let's try to keep it, uh, keep this from breaking up into conflict. Joe. Uh, Joey though, the younger brother, he says, screw that. Like I refuse to do it. And Dutch and no. Saw an opportunity. Know what? We gotta set an example out this guy. And they kidnapped the young, they kidnapped Joey, the younger brother, and they beat him [00:06:00] up to a bloody pulp and they hang him up by a meat hook. And I guess in one of the more, uh, Disgusting moments I've ever read about in, uh, mob history is apparently they, when he was hanging up by this meat hook, they had, I guess, gathered a gonorrhea, um, discharge bandages, like from a local hospital. How they would get these hands, get their hands on these things, I'll, I don't know, but they did, and they wrapped it around his eyes and. Basically made him blind. Like while this was all all going on, his, his family is like calling Dutch in the note Dutch and no, like, we want, you know, we want our son back, we want our son back. And Dutch said, well, okay, well it's gonna cost like $35,000, which the family ends up paying. But uh, Joey for the rest of his life was blind and partially crippled because of this, uh, because of what Dutch and, uh, no [00:07:00] did. And I would say, yeah, this event pretty much secured their reputation in the, uh, prohibition era. Gangsters is being like one of the most disgusting and ruthless out of them all. You really start to see during the prohibition era, it's. It separates the, the big leagues from the minor leagues. So a lot of people seem to have gotten involved in, in. Illegal alcohol and the illegal alcohol trade, but just because it was a, a young industry and anybody could get into it. And then you, you got like the big time criminals who got involved and they pushed out all the little guys. We're gonna talk a little bit now about a side character in Dutch's story, but he is really important. A guy named who goes by the name of Vincent Mad Dog call. Just to kind of put in perspective like the, the, the Noel Schultz gang or the Dutch, uh, [00:08:00] Noel Gang, whatever you want to call it, um, at this point, like they were the only gang that could rival the interconnected crime families, uh, Italian crime families, and. I was just thinking about this, uh, um, just from research in this time period, like it still shocks me in this like short kind of little window. You have like the likes of like Dutch and Lepke and other Jewish gangsters that we talked about and you know, combined together. They're just as powerful as the Italians and I'm pretty sure that there's no point other point in American history except for this short window where that could be said. Um, Yeah. So when Schultz, uh, moves, uh, Schultz decide Schultz and no decide like we're gonna move outta the Bronx, we're gonna expand our operation. So they end up moving into Manhattan, which, uh, gets em into conflict with the gentleman that we talked about earlier, Jack Legg's Diamond, [00:09:00] and by by extension the rest of the Irish mafia. And. What ends up happening initially in this, in this conflict is Joey no, um, ends up getting shot several times in front of a speakeasy. Uh, he survives, but he ended up, his, uh, wounds would end up getting infected, uh, and he would die, uh, on November 21st, uh, 1928. Um, this obviously made Schultz, you know, this guy was, he took him under his wing. He was kind of like a father figure to him in a lot of ways. He was his mentor. Um, And obviously made Schultz very, uh, mad. So he waited a little bit, uh, to strike revenge, but he ended up getting it, uh, where Jack Legg's Diamond was shot several times in front of, outside of a restaurant. Uh, we talked about that on the Jack Legg Diamond episode. If you guys want more details about, uh, crazy Life of Jack LE's Diamond, and basically when Jack LE's Diamond was [00:10:00] at the hospital at the time, touch moves his way into. Uh, that area, the Manhattan region then becomes even more powerful. But then this leads to Dutch having to deal with an internal conflict with the fellow lunatic. As you mentioned earlier, Vincent, mad Dog Cole. Um, It's, yeah, it's interesting just a little, kind of a side bit during this whole time, cuz it, it's gonna relate to when we start getting a little bit more detail about Vincent Mad Dog. Cole is Schultz Randall's gang. He paid them via a salary. So it wasn't like most of these gangs at the time were, uh, you get a base on a percentage of like, how much illegal booze do we sell or how much, uh, uh, illegal gambling money did we bring in? Schultz just paid guys with like a monthly salary. Which I thought was pretty interesting. Nobody else was doing that. The Italians weren't doing that, and from my understanding, none of the other Jewish gangs were doing that. Let's talk a little bit more about this, this [00:11:00] key character of Mad Dog Cole, because he does have a big part to play in not only Dutch Schultz's story, but moving basically the whole American Mafia forward. Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, uh, um, like when, uh, Jack, sorry, when, um, Dutch was able to take care of Jack Legg, diamond Jack, Legg's Diamond, he started having internal conflict. Uh, Vincent madd dog Cole was, uh, was a young up and up and coming hood that, uh, Dutch took a liking to cuz he saw a lot of similarities between him and himself. I mean, they were both like stone cold sociopaths and. Pretty much willing to do anything. Uh, yeah, like I pointed out earlier, Dutch hired him to be like a hitman and an enforcer. Um, but it, the problem was the, the qualities that made Mad Dog a good gangster or made mad dog, like appealing to Dutch, you know, the fact that he was a psychotic and he was willing. To pretty much do [00:12:00] anything, um, led into direct conflict with Dutch because it's hard to control individuals like that. You know, sometimes you get, you strike a perfect balance, or Dutch, he's, he's just the right amount of psychopath, but he is able to somewhat keep it under control to be able to run a criminal empire where Mad Dog wasn't able to really keep it enough, keep it under control, and he, he wasn't gonna take orders from anyone really. Um, So he starts doing, uh, starts doing his own thing and Dutch starts telling him it's like, you can't be doing this. And as I had pointed out earlier, Dutch paid his, uh, fellow soldiers with a salary. Uh, so when Dutch went to go confront Mad Dog about, uh, his erotic behavior, apparently Mad Dog like freaked out on him and said, you know what? You're gonna make me an equal partner, otherwise I'm just gonna form my own gang. And, uh, You know, Dutch was probably, I can only imagine Dutch at this time. Like really? Like, are you, do you know who I am? You're telling, you're making [00:13:00] demands to me. He must have been flabbergasted. Um, and that's basically what Mad Dog does. He forms his own gang and it leads to like one of the. Bloodier wars and uh, and organized crime history, especially, at least in the New York region that I've read about. I think it ends up with like 50 people who end up getting killed in this war. And it's shooting on the, you know, in the open streets. Even like Mad Dog's brother, his own brother gets killed out, uh, was one of the first victims. Um, Eventually this ends up leading to, uh, how uh, mad Dog got his, uh, his nickname and basically there was a hit going. There was Mad Dog was trying to take out some of like Dutch's guys and what ended up happening was he does like a drive by ends up hitting one of the young kids that were playing nearby and. One of them ends up dying. I think two of them ended up getting injured. [00:14:00] And then from this point on, I believe it was the mayor of New York at the time, or it was the governor called him a mad dog. And this is how he got the nickname Mad Dog Cole. Um, yeah. So this ends up going to court and. It's funny, like he hired a pretty good lawyer and he denied it from, denied it, obviously, that he had anything to do with killing this kid, killing these kid, killing this kid. Uh, the other thing he ended up saying was like, oh, I wish I could rip the throat out. Or the guy that actually killed the kid, he'd be ripping his own throat out. But that's neither here nor there. The case, there wasn't a, there wasn't really a ton of evidence. Um, Gangster. So he and ends up getting thrown outta court. Mad Dog just ends up going back to, uh, what he does and. Should I talk about him getting hired by Marzano? I think it's one thing that's really interesting about Dutch is [00:15:00] hiring these people on on a payroll. I think it shows you the really different sides of organized crime. There's some organized crime where they have a revenue stream, like through. Be it illegal drugs or be it in this case, illegal alcohol or in, uh, other circumstances. It's construction. The money's coming from somewhere. But then there's other situations where these crews are just kind of freelancers who are trying to get into any scam they want to, and you don't wanna pay them a salary because otherwise those guys are gonna sit around and drink coffee all day because they, otherwise they'd have nothing to do either. We really start to see that there's a lot of different facets to organize crime. Yeah. Maybe the idea you mentioned earlier in the, the previous episode of Murder Inc. They, at least, at the very least, they were paying like a retainer. Remember, this is an idea that they, they took from Dutch. I, I don't [00:16:00] know for sure about that, but I mean, it's, it's highly possible. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. You don't want these guys, you need when you, when you need guys, you want to have them, yeah. Available. Not tracing down every, you know, shaking down every bookmaker and candy store owner and to, on the main street, you, you want them waiting to do jobs. But if it was in another circumstance where you, where the crews are trying to shake down candy stores, you don't want them sitting in the bar when they should be out shaking down. Oh yeah. For sure. I mean, yeah, no, it makes sense, right? Um, Yeah, and I guess, so they, they kind of quickly talk about how Mad Dog Cole gets outta the picture is, you know, one, the one thing that Mad Dog Cole did to make money, uh, when he formed his own gang was to kidnap, uh, fellow gangsters. He paid like, you know, bro, like fellow brothers of gangster [00:17:00] bosses or even sometimes bosses themselves and ask for ransoms and obviously, They'd pay it, right? Cuz of where are they gonna go? They can't go to the cops. So obviously this didn't make many friends for, uh, mad Dog, Cole and Dutch and a couple other bosses, but a 50 grand, 50 grand, uh, bouncy on his head and. What ended up happening is they, they saw him at a, like a phone booth, uh, I believe it was in front of a restaurant, and a couple of the Duchess men, um, saw him there and they came out with Tommy guns and shot him up. I think it was, they hit him 15 times and f. Or 20 times and 15 of the bullets went right through 'em. And, but that's a quick rundown. You can't really tell the Dr. Sots story without mentioning Mad Dog Cole and that trial and kind of how they met and how the breakup happened and his death. Yeah, it seems like Mad Dog came up with. Dutch and then [00:18:00] they broke apart. But it shows that all this interconnectivity and especially interconnectivity into all different facets of the mafia Dutch ends that Doug's run. But, um, what were some of the rackets that Dutch was involved in? Yeah. When prohibition was starting to come to an end, like Dutch, uh, started looking for other revenue, like other ways of making money, um, One of the, uh, one of the more brilliant things he did is he muscled his way into the Harlem Numbers racket. Uh, I believe it was, I can't remember her name, but it was this, it was this, uh, black woman that was running this numbers racket. Apparently she held EL for quite some time and I think eventually had just, uh, ended up giving in. Um, Dutch also, he also hired this guy, Otto Berman, I guess he, his version of Meyer Wanski. And they, um, came up with this like, he was like a math numbers whiz type of [00:19:00] guy, and he came up with this. That's above my pay grade, but basically the scheme or working with the numbers so that it would basically maximize the amount of money that they were getting from those numbers and paying up as little as they possibly can. And the, and the numbers, uh, scheme, if anybody who's not familiar in the numbers is basically just like his lottery back in the day. That's just what they called it. Um, And obviously this guy was really important cause from what I read, like Dutch was paying him 10 grand a week and translated to nowadays money that that's almost $150,000. He was paying him a week to run this number scam for him. So you could imagine the type of money that was getting brought in. Steve here we are a member of the Parthenon Podcast Network, featuring great shows like James Earley's, key Battles of American History Podcast and many other great shows. Go [00:20:00] over to parthenon podcast.com to learn more, and here is a quick word from our sponsors. Just recently, one of the lottos, I think it was the Powerball, was over a billion dollars and that was, the purse was a billion dollars and I can't, the government takes a certain percentage of the sales of the tickets, so we're talking about yins with a B of dollars that people have put into this. Into this. I mean, the numbers and essentially, like you said, the numbers is the, is basically the lottery. They're almost exactly the same. That's an insane amount of money. And like you said, let alone legalized sports gambling today, I mean, even given inflation and everything, I think PE we probably gamble more than they did back then because there's so many more opportunities [00:21:00] to gamble. But they were still doing a lot of gambling back then as well. Oh yeah, for sure. And then what was the other industry that Dutch ended up getting involved in too? Was, uh, was the service industry and the, especially the unions. I don't, I think I mentioned this on a previous episode, but I guess it's worth like mentioning again, like back in the day, it, it seems like from everything I've read, there was like a union for everything. He basically, he set up his own like association called the Metropolitan Restaurant and Cafeteria Owners Association. Uh, um, Was basically like, you know, you join this as join my association, or this is gonna happen. This is what he would actually do to people. Like, he would send 'em as like goons in there to stink bomb, uh, restaurants, like during rush hour so people just wouldn't fail to eat. I know that sounds like, oh, that's like something at a high school, but you know. Nobody's eating there and they're not paying, then the restaurant's gonna start close down. Right. Um, you know, with the backing of [00:22:00] like the different unions too, he would demand, he would get the workers to start demanding like ridiculous pay increases to the point where, you know, the restaurant's just not gonna be profitable. And then, you know, if all that didn't work, he would. Send us real, like real tough goons and start doing physical harm to like these restaurant owners that they didn't end up joining this association. Like, you know, this is textbook extortion. You know, this is, uh, this is the reason why some of these people, they look up to the mob guys and I just don't get it, man. Like a lot of these restaurant owners, they're just like trying to make a living. You know, that's all they're doing. They're just opening up a restaurant, trying to make a living, and you have this crazy lunatic Dutch who threatening to kill them because he won't pay the Mafia tax. It's just how do you look up to these guys? I don't, I don't get it. I'll never understand how people do, but you know, a lot of people do it. In a way though, that one [00:23:00] thing that's. I don't know if admirable is the the right word for it, but surprising that somebody came up with the idea that he squeezed the owners and he squeezed labor, which the mafia start to go more for taking on, squeezing the owners through labor where Dutch, but just basically rung out as much money out of both of them and talking about money. We've talked a lot about money and death and death and taxes go together. He winds up getting into some tax issues, which a lot of mobsters wind up getting into tax issues. What was Dutch's problem with his tax? Well, in, in the 1930s, this is when Tommy is Thomas, Dewey ends up showing up on the stage and he starts going after. People like Doug, he starts going after people like Lepke. He starts going after people like Jacob Shapiro and all these Lucky Luciano, which I mean, we could probably, we'll probably end [00:24:00] up doing a whole episode on just Thomas Dewey and Lucky Luciano, that trial, cuz it is, it's very, uh, controversial how that all went down. But, uh, that's not really, uh, for this episode here. But, you know, Dewey was just going after all these mob guys didn't like any of them. Um, Base. Yeah. So when Dutch was indicted on like federal, like income tax evasion, he ran away. He ran up. To, he ran an, uh, he ran, uh, upstate to Albany in hopes of finding like if, well, if I get arrested here, you know, hopefully the jury doesn't owe me as well and I can convince him that I'm something that I'm hide. Cuz I'm sure if he got, uh, arrested in his neighborhood where he was, there's not a, there's not a chance that anybody in the jury is gonna, you know, think favorably of 'em because they know who Dutch is. First trial for income tax evasion, it ended up in, uh, It was a hung jury. Um, of everything that I read, and a lot of people speculate, it was because Dutch was [00:25:00] bribing members. Uh, and probably, let's be honest, that's exactly probably what was happening. As you saw, he, as I pointed out earlier, he was paying a guy $10,000 a week, uh, to run his number scam. So it's not like Dutch didn't have money. Um, Leading up to, I believe it, leading up to a second trial, uh, for income tax evasion. It was gonna take into place, it was gonna take place in, uh, take place in Malone, New York. Um, and which is, was looking at up on the map, I guess it's like the more of like, kind of, maybe it's not country anymore, but at the time it was more like country area of New York, uh, state. Um, Dutch came up with this pretty brilliant, uh, PR scheme where, He would just go around presenting himself as a good old boy. He was donating money to hospitals. He'd, uh, give money to small businesses, give toys to sick kids, and, um, I gotta give it to him. And it worked. It, uh, he ended up being found [00:26:00] innocent of, uh, you know, the income tax of Asian charges. Uh, the mayor of New York. Apparently he was like so outraged over the verdict. He put a demand that like Dutch, every return to New York City, he'd just be arrested immediately. Cause you know, they could arrest him for anything really. It's like, it's Dutch. He's, he's committing some kind of crime. Um, and this basically forced Dutch to move all his operations to, uh, New Jersey, New York, um, and. I just like it to myself. Like, imagine like a mayor just made such a declaration, like regards to getting rid of like violent criminals, being like, you know, like, you guys are just not Welcome to the city. We know you're committing crimes. We'll find you on anything and we're just gonna arrest you the second you walk into the city. Now let's bring in, uh, lucky Luciano into the story. Because Dutch, he's hobnobbing with this high echelon of New York and really American crime. And we have, at [00:27:00] this point, the commission is starting to form and uh, the national crime syndicate and all of this stuff is really coming about. But Dutch has brought a lot of heat as honestly as. Innovative as starting the Arthur Heimer Defense Fund and all that stuff was, it's bringing, putting the spotlight on some things that the bigwigs don't want spotlights put on. Yeah. Well, I mean Dutch, I mean, he was kind. He was, you know, pissing people off, like higher up. And he was also pissing people off in his own organization where, you know, as these, like as the legal problems were mounting for a judge, he ended up starting like this, cutting back on his employees salaries and using it, as you pointed out, the Arthur Frankenheimer Defense Fund that, sorry, that's always gonna make me laugh, um, to help pay for these legal costs, and this sounds ridiculous. But apparently at one [00:28:00] point, like the people in Dutch's organization, like rented out a hole and like went on strike. So like, we're not doing any more work. We have to pay this, this extra tax to pay for your legal problems or something like that. He's just like, all, all right guys. All right. Forget about, we're not paying for the tax anymore. Just how, how crazy is that? Eh? Like the gangsters Go on. Strike it real. It's was bus. It was big business. Now, this is the point where Dutch really starts. I mean, if you didn't think he was going off the rails before, this is where he really starts going off the rails, and Dutch is gonna make some some decisions, and that's gonna cause the higher ups and organized crime like the commission to make some decisions. What, what happens with the, where does Dutch take all this? Okay, so Bo Reiner, who was kind of like, he was, uh, like dutch's right hand muscle or [00:29:00] whatever, when all this legal trouble was going on, he, he got into contact with Lucky Luciano and basically they both worked at a deal where they would take over all of Dutch's operations once he went to jail. Cause everyone had, was fairly convinced that he was not gonna get off these charges. It's Dutch Schultz for God's sakes. Like, he's not gonna get off these charges. Um, and what, what Lucky, really wanted to. Do because he wanted to kind of break up his rackets and like take a fair, take most of them himself and then spread it throughout the Italian families. Um, I think thinking like if once we get Dutch out of the picture, then we don't, there's literally no one that we have to worry about in terms of organized. Crime, at least from the like of the, the Italian half of it that anyone can challenge us. Once Dutch is outta here, then there's no one they can challenge us. It's only, you know, us fighting ourselves really. Um, that's the way I interpret it. I think he was thinking like, I can make personal [00:30:00] gain out of this. And, uh, overall the Italian mafia long term is gonna gain from this. Right. We'll take out our last enemy, really. Um, But what ended up happening was, you know, like as we talked about earlier, Dutch gets off the charges, so people weren't expecting that. Um, And as soon as Dutch got off the charges, he, you know, he got into contact with Lucky Luciano, like demanded a meeting with the commission to help clarify the uh, situation. And apparently Lucky explained to Dutch, he's like, oh no, we were just holding down the fort for you guy, like fort for you Dutch, until you came back and. I just imagine Dutch's face, just like listening to this and being like, I, oh my God, I have no choice. I have to like, I have to like pretend like I believe this. Um, but he didn't have to do that with Bo Weinberg. Apparently Bo Weinberg, as soon as Dutch got off the charges, and I think it was in a couple weeks, he went missing. And they never found his, they never found him. Dutch has been in a lot of [00:31:00] legal troubles and he comes up and he, I guess when you're in that situation and you're in legal troubles, you could go on the straight and narrow, or you could kill the prosecutor who's, who's been hounding you all these years. What does Dutch make? What decision does Dutch make to do? Well, so the commission, because Thomas Dewey was going after everyone, they, they held a meeting, um, to talk about like, what are we gonna do about Thomas Dewey? Right. And there was different opinions of what to do with Thomas Dewey, um, lucky Luciano. And there's a wing of the commission that thought we're not gonna do anything, what Thomas is doing, like, we're just gonna weather the storm and. Not try to try, try not to draw heat to each our ourselves, right? Where there was a wing that was in favor of, you know what, let's just kill Thomas d. He seems to be the guy that's causing all these problems. We weren't having these problems before this guy showed up, but we just kill him. Maybe [00:32:00] they'll just start go. They'll just go away again. You know, Dutch was in this wing. Albert Anastasia thought the same thing, and Jacob Shapiro thought, yeah, let's just, let's get right to this guy. Um, People might call me crazy, but I kind of, from everything that I read, I, I kind of agree with 'em, where if they just get dewy outta the picture, I, I don't think a lot of this stuff that ends up happening ends up happening, but, you know, maybe it brings more heat. I mean, maybe it brings too much heat, but then you're gonna have to find somebody who's like Thomas Dewey to replace Thomas Dewey. I just don't think you were gonna find that guy. Thomas Dewey was a very unique individual. That's such a tough one and I've gone back and forth on whether I think that that would've been a good idea to, to take out Dewey. I think had they taken out Dewey, we would see a very different. World come out of that, that does it become [00:33:00] normalized then to kill prosecutors. Then we're talking about Italy type stuff, where in Sicily, where they're killing judges and uh, prosecutors, I think that the heat would've come down on them so hard. That they would've had the entire, uh, government, F B i, ccia, A I R Rs, everything. And, and Marines, you name it, coming down on them. And I think in the, in my estimation, it was probably a good idea, not. To kill him just because the amount of heat that would've come down with that. And it might not have even been through prosecutions. I mean, it could have been almost like clandestine sort of things, but I don't think that the government of that era would've let that go. Without serious, serious repercussions. But again, I mean, we're all in What if [00:34:00] territory, just to wrap up the story of Dutch today, let's set up the scene of Dutch's death, and then we'll start to get into what's some of the fallout, uh, with Dutch's death. Because really, honestly, after this whole thing of wanting to kill Dewey and Dutch being overridden on this, you know, things are gonna come to a head at that point. That it's not gonna be all right. I shuck cause I didn't get to, uh, kill the most famous prosecutor. Something's gonna come out of that. Steve here again with a quick word from our sponsors. Yeah. So the commission comes to the conclusion. It's like, yeah, okay. Obviously we're, we're not killing Dewey. It's nuts. We're not doing this. Apparently Dutch storms over the meeting and says, you know what? I don't care what you guys guys say, I'm gonna do it anyways. Uh, And there was like a kind of a moment pause like, oh, [00:35:00] is he being serious or not? And apparently the thing that confirmed to the commissioner that Dutch was dead serious, that he was gonna kill Dewey, apparently he asked Albert Anastasia to stake out, uh, Thomas Dewey's apartment. Uh, apparently a little side note, apparently Albert actually did do this, and he was. Borrow. He borrowed like a fellow mobsters baby and was basically pushing her on a baby carriage and surrogate to do his apartment and staking him out basically. And Albert went to the commission and the commission said, okay, well he's actually gonna do this. He wasn't just like, he wasn't just blowing smoke and they had a meeting that lasted for like six hours and they're like, all right, well, it's either Dewey or Dutch, and like, all right, we're gonna take out Dutch and. The Hammer went down and they hired out Murder Inc. To, uh, take out Dutch salts. And then how does Dutch ultimately, uh, meet his demise? On October 20, uh, third, uh, [00:36:00] 1935, while at the, uh, palace Chop House in New York, two gun men entered the place, uh, the via the, uh, back of the restaurant. And. Began to open fire. They hit two of Dutch's. Uh, right hand. Right hand man. You know, two of his bodyguards. Uh, one of them took a bullets in the neck and, uh, the other took a bunch of bullets, uh, close range. Neither of them died. They ended up fighting back. I think, uh, one of the, uh, murder Inc. Assassins, uh, left one of the other ones there cause he freaked out cause like, thought for sure that they were dead. Um, He ended up running out to the restaurant apparently when one of, uh, Abe's bodyguards was shooting at him, as he is like running outta the restaurant down the street and like collapses on a trash can. Um, during this, uh, melee, apparently Dutch was in the bathroom and got hit by stray bullet, uh, in the, uh, chest region, and, uh, was demanding to call, [00:37:00] uh, demanding his him man to call hospital for him. Uh, you could actually see, uh, He's not dead in this picture. You can actually see a picture of Dutch where he's like leaned over on the, like, um, the one of the restaurant tables and he's, uh, slowly, uh, bleeding out. Uh, apparently when the ambulance showed up to pick up Dutch. They didn't have any painkillers, so all they could give him was Brandy. Dutch demanded to uh, uh, I believe when he was, uh, when they got into the hospital, he demanded to have his life last rights, uh, by a Catholic priest. So, and that's another thing, and Dutch's life that didn't really get into, it's like he was Jewish, but it seems like. To a degree he became a Catholic, um, and kind of rejected his, uh, his, uh, Judaism. Uh, I think people at the time thought it was just like him trying to fit in with the Italians, but I think there was some, I think there was some sincerity in it. Isn't that so strange that somebody [00:38:00] who is a, uh, Just a violent, psychopathic murderer has a religious conversion. Uh, it's so strange, and like you said, it wasn't a deathbed thing from my understanding. No, I wait. I think he was worried that, I think he was worried that he might be dying, but this is, um, like we, I didn't get into it, we didn't get into a ton of detail about, um, this, but it, it's just something that kind of was always falling around Dutch where. Uh, like he seems to have really respected the Catholic religion and Catholicism in general, uh, to a degree. And where, like I said, there were a lot of the Italian guys thought he was just playing it up to fit in where a lot of other people thought that there was, so there was a fair amount of sincerity to it. It'd be interesting to kind of really dig into that to see if we can find like a definitive answer. Was this just all phony baloney or was this a. Sincere, uh, [00:39:00] conversion when Dutch was slowly dying, apparently he was like slipping in and outta consciousness and he. I don't know. I guess he kind of creates David Lynch, uh, dialogue, uh, from say something like Twin Peaks, cuz it, it, it just reads like, it, it is just a stream of consciousness really. Like some of the things he was saying was A boy has never wept nor dashed a thousand. Kim, you can play jacks and girls do. That with a softball and do tricks with it. This is kind of the stuff that he was talking about, like, oh, oh, dog biscuit. And when he is happy he doesn't get snappy. The boss himself. Yes. I don't know. I am sore. I'm going up and I'm going and I'm going to give you honey if I can. Mother is the best and don't let Sayan draw you too fast. It's this and this. You can look it up. This is like literally, there was a guy, there was a woman there who was recording literally everything that [00:40:00] Dutch was saying, and it's pages and pages and pages and pages of this stuff. And I haven't read the play, but apparently it was the last day of Dutch Schultz was turned into a play. Uh, apparently it was a quite famous play where it, I don't know if it's quite written in this type of style, but it's, um, it's written kind of like stream of consciousness type style, which is this, that type of style of, uh, writing was starting to get popular at this time too, if I'm not mistaken, even after Dutch died, apparently he, uh, He left us something pretty interesting during his ramblings. He mentioned that he had a 7 million fortune stashed away, and you know, if you adjusted it to today's money, it'd be about 500 million. And apparently people are still hunting to this day for Dutch's Hidden Treasure. I'm sure he had money stashed, I don't know, about 5 million, but it's somewhere or somebody found it, didn't say anything. You know, like the, these guys keeping money under the [00:41:00] mattress. It seems like it'd probably be like a pretty typical thing. Yeah, I have to imagine that you would think that you would hear of hoards getting found in Manhattan, tearing down a building or renovating a, a building. But you don't hear about it that much. And maybe it is all talk that they have money stashed away. I mean, the one that will certainly talk about in the future is Jimmy, Jimmy Burke, who was, uh, made famous by Robert De Niro and the movie Good Fellas. He wound up with all of the money from the Luhan, Lufthansa, uh, robbery, millions and millions of dollars. Nobody's ever found it, and I'm assuming that the family has it. Because you think about the amount of revenue that he was bringing in. Yeah, 7 million is a lot of money. Any which way you cut it. But I, I mean that, that's like, you know, like a safety that's, I don't know, that's kind of [00:42:00] like an insurance policy with the amount of revenue that Dutch was bringing in. And that's not a, a packet of bills though was stuffed in the drywall in your house. And that's like a pallet of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somewhat. You know, I just think, I think somebody close to him knew where it was or had, maybe it wasn't quite 7 million, but he had money stashed away. They took it. Never said anything about it. It's not like Dutch's gonna use it anyways. It could have been the mafia for all know. You know, they interrogated somebody in Dutch's gang found out where the money was and they took it for themselves. It's very possible. What's your final takeaway on Dutch? What, what do you want people to leave with? What, uh, thinking about Dutch and the, the impact that Dutch made on the American mafia, like, I gotta say personally like Dutch is. One of the more polarizing charact like figures that I've read [00:43:00] about, uh, for me personally, like there's a part of me that just finds them absolutely disgusting and beyond reproach. But there's a part, there's parts of me that I kind of, I kind of respect him from a distance, you know, like Dutch never tried to be like anything other than a gangster even right Way, even like the way he dressed, like they would joke about, you know, they would make fun of Dutch cuz he dress dressed like a slob and. He dressed like a street guy. Really. You know, like Meyer Lansky tried to, tried to play this guy where he was just like a numbers guy and he was like a gambling guy and like Frank Costello tried to be like, oh, I'm just, you know, I'm just a businessman. And Arnold Rothstein tried to like, pretend like he wasn't part of high society wearing fancy suits and having the proper etiquette or. Dutch never, never did that. I never pretended to be anything than what he was. He was a gangster. And I dunno, the, the impression that I get of Dutch is I may, I obviously wouldn't have liked the guy, but I would've known where I could [00:44:00] probably have a conversation with Dutch and I could probably know where he stands on any given issue. I think he was generally an honest guy where it's just like, this is the, what you're getting paid in terms of your salary. If you don't like it, leave, you know. And if you get, if you steal from me, you're gonna get killed. You know, like, I don't think any of that was like up in the air. I don't where like a lot of these other atal, like a lot of these like Italian mob guys, you, it's all kind of like this, I don't know, backstabbing, you know, get your best friend to, you know, take you out type thing. Where, I mean, Dutch would just do it himself. I mean, and to a certain degree, I think there's, I don't know. There's something to respect about that in comparison to how some of these other guys acted. Well, thanks everybody for joining us and join us next time as we continue to discuss the incredible history of Murder Incorporated. We'll take a deeper look into the leadership of Murder Inc. And the ultimate collapse of [00:45:00] this criminal organization. We'll see you next time, but don't forget to tell your friends about organized crime and punishment. That's one of the biggest ways to help us grow this podcast and to let other people know about the show and tell your friends so that your friends can become friends of ours. Yeah, forget about you've been listening to Organized Crime and Punishment, a History and Crime podcast. To learn more about what you heard today, find links to social media and how to support the show. Go to our website, A to z history page.com. Become a friend of ours by sending us an email to crime A to z history page.com. All of this and more can be found in the show notes. We'll see you next time on Organized Crime and Punishment. 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